FFVII - Sleeping Arrangements - Faltering Dreams 1/4

[raaj]

Finally finished this scene, which is supposed to be like part 1 of 4 for the "conclusion" of Sleeping Arrangements. ...Um, considering the length of other pieces so far, that might be a bit long for an ending--mostly keep thinking of it as one overall piece because even though it's four scenes, I wanted to focus on Tifa's POV and her fears to link things together as everything goes to pieces (...last scene has her being stabbed to go to the one who didn't die, yep).

Not sure if I'm quite on target with her fears here though, I admit I've had writer's block/similar frustration on this and various other projects for so long that I just SHOVED through it tonight. Also need to go back and figure out more scenes to flesh out the overall "Sleeping Arrangements" more, figure out the other half of Gongaga too (kind of want to do a silly one in Wutai or elsewhere; Yuffie sees how they keep sharing the bed and is like "HEY, I GET A TURN /shoves on to share the bed with Aerith" with the other two women all YUFFIE THE BED IS NOT THAT BIG)

Anyway! For now, onward. Someday I will work perfectly sequentially on a project, but it helps that this does pretty much adhere to canon until Tifa is stabbed.

***

For once Tifa had a bed of her own.

Which meant, for once, she couldn't sleep, and had to conclude ruefully that Cait Sith's contacts were too good. The moment AVALANCHE had found out about the broken tram stranding them at the Gold Saucer, the cat robot had bounded off to inform the haunted hotel's employees they were staying the night. To the entirely exhausted party's fortune, there was a smaller crowd than usual--he'd been able to wheedle their way into three rooms, making it possible for everyone to have the rare treat of a separate bed.

Tifa had gotten much too used to a shared one. Usually, Aerith would be lying opposite her. With both their bodies giving off heat, they would only need one blanket to feel warm, if any at all. Two grown women on a mattress meant for two children or one adult could be a bit crowded sometimes, and Aerith would sleep in different positions--curled on her side like a child, or flat on her back with hands one over the other, oddly composed--but they always managed to fit. And she rarely ever turned her face away, making it easy for words to flow between them until the fatigue of their bodies fully caught up with their minds... making it easy for Tifa to catch glimpses of her friend's face at rest, calm and beautiful.

It was funny how traveling together could create such sudden bonds. ...No, that wasn't quite right. Their group had formed bonds traveling together, but in this particular case, for this particular feeling--it wasn't safe to say it was mutual, the impulse to invite Aerith to share a bed even though they each had their own, just to feel her warmth, her hand. To open the door to feeling something more...

Tifa sighed at herself, burying her face further in the blanket. That was flat out wrong, and not just because Yuffie was also staying in the room. Aerith liked Cloud. For that matter, she liked Cloud too. ..."Like" was a really lame way to describe it. She loved him, the boy who had so earnestly promised to become her hero. She'd kept that memory with him in her heart for so, so long... After... everything that had happened, she'd had to become her own hero, protect herself, but she'd still held stars dear in spite of living in the Midgar slums, where you were lucky to catch a glimpse of just one through a slit in the plate. There'd been other guys, guys who flirted with her and seemed alright, girls too; alcohol loosened tongues quite a bit and Tifa had heard more than one drunk confession that had given her food for thought. But even the ones she'd found attractive, or maybe simply similar to Cloud...they just hadn't compared to the power of that memory.

And Aerith--she wasn't like Cloud at all. How could she be attracted to both of them? If anything, they were polar opposites.

Though not so opposite they couldn't find anything in common between themselves. That much was obvious. Cloud had clicked so quickly with Aerith, and opened up like he hadn't with anyone else of AVALANCHE or even her up until then. Really--they'd started talking about a date when everyone was locked in jail cells! Aerith just had that light in her that Cloud seemed to soak right up, and there were moments between them where Tifa could see them creating a world of their own. A world she hadn't been invited to, and didn't know how to put a foot in. Aerith was so strong in looking to the future, and Cloud so set in moving forward, she felt like she was always two steps behind either of them, slowed by worry and indecision.

She couldn't even decide who she really wanted to be with. If she couldn't make up her mind, of course they'd leave her behind. Because, they knew, didn't they...?

If she could only make a choice--

"Aerith." The name burst out, quiet but urgent, as Tifa swung her legs out over the edge of the bed and sat up. She didn't know what she'd say next. Actually inviting her friend to share the bed wasn't a serious idea when she didn't even know if Aerith liked girls.

But when Tifa was answered with the click of the handle in the door, her next words became irrelevant. Her mouth slowly closed as she looked at Aerith's empty bed. Where was she going? ...Probably the bathroom... well, this way there was time to think about it, right? Maybe it was a bad idea to say anything to Aerith. Cloud had been her love much longer... and if something really was wrong with him, then she had to be there by his side.

Even if he didn't quite match up to her memory, either.

There was a rumble of fake thunder and a knock--not on their door, too muffled. One door to the right, though, which meant it was still one of their group's rooms. Tifa strained her ears as the door opened, but soon enough she could hear Aerith's humored giggle and relaxed. She was worrying too much. They were staying the night because the tram was broken, of course Shinra wouldn't be able to bother them tonight.

But who was Aerith visiting at this hour?

"A daa~aate!" Aerith's voice gaily sang out. "Or haven't you ever been on one?"

Tifa's breath caught, because there was only one person Aerith could possibly be asking to accompany her for a date. A lump rose in her throat.

No. No, no, no...

Cloud's voice was much milder, but it was still audible through the wall between the adjoining rooms, even if Tifa couldn't pick out the individual words. It didn't seem like an objection though, as Aerith's voice could be heard again, telling him to hurry up. This time the man's voice rose sharply--"Hey!"--but the protest was only a token one; Tifa could still hear two sets of footsteps leaving the room.

And then both rooms fell silent except for Yuffie's snoring. Tifa took her eyes from the door her friend had left through, looking flatly at the fake stone of the dungeon-themed room and trying to pick out any gaps or imperfections. To distract herself. To not think about it, how Aerith would likely...

Bit by bit, lure out the gentler Cloud.

Her hands gripped the crisply starched sheets tightly. They were going to leave her behind, because she hadn't made up her mind quickly enough.

...When had she gotten so scared of being left alone? But it didn't seem that unreasonable with everything that had happened. The little bit of home she'd scratched out for herself in Sector Seven had been buried under tons of steel, and they were all wanted by Shinra. Find Sephiroth and stop whatever his plan was--that sounded incredible, with Cloud just managing to somehow make it seem possible. Even if they pulled that off...would the group stay together? For how long? Everyone was looking for something different, and some days it seemed like they could split up just as easily and go their separate ways. Cloud most of all, in spite of past promises. Maybe Aerith could keep up with him, but...

Her head was starting to hurt a bit and she shook her head, annoyed and dismayed to find tears starting to spring up. She was being stupid, letting fear get ahead of her. Even if she didn't know what was in the future, even if they all split up and Cloud and Aerith vanished on the wind, she'd have Barret. They'd been friends for so long now, she knew she could stay with him if she needed to. There was no need to be scared. Not having a home and being unlucky in love didn't make her the fifteen-year-old who'd woken up in Midgar without anyone all over again.

"Ah." Tifa gritted her teeth and fell back against the mattress, pressing her palms to her closed eyes. Fear or grief, she didn't know what she was feeling and she didn't care, she just wanted it to go away. She blindly clutched the blanket and dragged it over her. It was night, it was late, she was tired and letting her thoughts run away; she could deal with her best friend and first (only?) love loving each other in the morning. It would look so much better; she might even forget to feel left out. She forced herself to take herself deep breaths and gradually, all too slowly, fell to sleep.

"Tifa! Tifa--I need to tell you--"

No. Aerith needed to go away before she got punched. Tifa screwed her eyes more tightly shut, not sure how long she'd been asleep but feeling like it'd been mere minutes; instead of well-rested, she felt even worse. A little on the dehydrated side, and far and away on the cranky side with Aerith being so worked up--the woman was even shaking her shoulder. Was she that excited from the date? Tifa was sure she couldn't bear to hear any of it. She turned her head further into the pillow, hoping Aerith would get the hint. She was asleep, she was too tired, not until morning. She could be happy for her friends in the morning.

The shaking stopped, but Aerith's hand stayed, and from the shifting of the mattress it seemed like the woman was only getting closer. Tifa reluctantly opened her eyes a pinch to see Aerith staring at her without any ounce of the expected joy on her normally happy face, only worry and concern. "Tifa... what's wrong?"

She blinked and felt two weak tears come loose--damn it--and Aerith was already sliding into the space she'd unthinkingly left open on the bed as she murmured, "Nothing. Bad dream..."

She tried to smile at Aerith, but Aerith frowned and drew her closer. Tifa tensed at the first touch of fingers brushing her bangs back, but the sweeping motion was gentle and calming. "'Nothing', really?"

"You know, we have our own beds tonight," Tifa pointed out. Calming fingers did not mean she was ready to be questioned on her messy feelings.

"Doesn't mean we can't share. Do you want me to get off?"

"Um..." Aerith hitched her eyebrows. "...stop that. No, you can stay. But it really wasn't anything serious. Just silly worries."

Maybe Aerith was just sharing the bed because she looked like a big baby right now, but still, her friend was here. Maybe it wasn't love, but she wouldn't be left behind. She just needed to start believing that.

"You want to talk about it?"

"...Didn't you have something to tell me?" Somewhat calmer now, Tifa could recognize Aerith hadn't actually sounded happy in waking her up. She'd just assumed the energy was out of excitement; Aerith wasn't the kind to throw herself pity parties for a date gone sour, so what else could it be?

As Tifa looked up at the brunette, this time she was sure: Aerith was upset herself. She still had yet to smile. "It can wait until morning," Aerith said, meeting Tifa's gaze. "Middle of the night, the best thing to do is sleep."

"I'm fine, Aerith. Tell me."

"...Alright. Cloud and I, we were, well--we found out who was the spy. Is," she corrected herself unhappily.

Tifa's crimson eyes had already widened and she quickly sat up in bed, half-guiltily looking over to Yuffie--still asleep in her bed, so certainly not her, for all the trickery back in Wutai. She looked at Aerith again and quietly demanded: "Who?"

"Cait Sith. He gave Tseng the Keystone. At the chocobo racing platform, the tram's still broken or at least that's what he says, Tseng was in a helicopter. ...And--Marlene--"

"--Marlene? What's she got to do with this?"

"She shouldn't," Aerith bit out, anger flashing across her expression before she shook her head. "...She was kidnapped by his operator. The demand is that Cait Sith stays with us."

No wonder Aerith hadn't changed out of her date outfit. Tifa didn't think either of them would be getting much sleep tonight.

So much for thinking Shinra couldn't touch them right now.

Comments

[sanctum_c]

Yay!

First up, really like the Wutai idea there of Yuffie trying to cram her way into the same bed as Aeris (and the bed is nowhere near big enough for how she sleeps? Or is she trying to get all three of them into the same bed...?). Putting it in Wutai feels right given the overall tone of that section of the game (there are admittedly others, but I kind of like the idea its maybe Yuffie being slightly nervous about how easily she'll be accepted back into the fold after the succession of stunts she just pulled (and from this section Wutai definitely follows Rocket Town... I kind of like how this is optional in FFVII, but it would always feel weird to go to Wutai later then this - its almost the last outright comic section before everything starts to go wrong - and while the Turks would fit into the sequence almost regardless of timing (wondering now if you can still trigger this after the Highwind scene...) at certain points they're going to appear so out of character/wow that would break Compilation chronology))...).

I like Tifa's gradual realisation of how things stand with regards to her feelings towards Aeris - and how she's really thinking of inviting her to keep sharing the bed unnecessarily - that's really cute. And those neat little details; stars between plate gaps, Tifa becoming a hero in place of Cloud... And also her certainty that Aeris can't be sharing the same feelings - that she and Cloud are making their own world (that's one of the official quotes about them I seem to remember) and Tifa feels excluded. I think her fears do sound about right - or at least to me, and I really like Tifa's inability to rely on her own first-hand evidence (oh, I know I do this too and pick apart a moment and convince myself its something other) - her viewing Cloud and Aeris as clicking so quickly and so readily: completely disregarding how wonderfully quickly she herself clicked with Aeris in Wall Market. Also quite like the not thinking of the OT3 situation yet/assuming the other two *have* to be set on who they truly like...

And oh! So close and yet so far when Tifa realises she wants to sleep beside Aeris regardless! (actually this took me a re-read to get the sequence quite straight. For some reason I'd been reading the scene as if Aeris hadn't been in the room at all, and I think Aeris gets up to leave just as Tifa sits up and calls to her, and by then she's into the hall and heading for Cloud's room). It might be resonating with me, but Tifa's flat out fear of what that date means feels right, the unavoidable wondering about how that's going to alter the future... (and if I'm not totally mis-reading Tifa, the assumption she's making in her head that maybe Cloud and Aeris will kiss tonight - if not go a bit further (for reference - At My Fingertips & At My Fingertips - Brusque by Aevee are two versions of an Aeris/Tifa scenario where Cloud asks Aeris to stay the night with him - in the first she panics and runs to Tifa, and in the latter she stays with Cloud and badly alters her relationship with Tifa. It's never outright stated, but I read them both as occurring at the Gold Saucer. Not totally sure on either of their characterisations (or indeed Cloud's) in these either (feels a bit forward for Cloud to suggest that), but possibly of some interest)).

Anyway - her trying to convince herself that she's just being silly - and hey she'll still have a friend in Barret feels familiar to me too! A need to try and mitigate what you fear is coming next, and make sure its not going to hit you as hard as you fear... but it always does, its always a little more painful then you expect... (rambling - but I really identify with Tifa's thought processes in this. Admittedly that's not entirely the right idea as its supposed to be how she as a character would react, but I can see her thinking this way and just putting on a brave face - or rather preparing to).

Tifa's worried assumption of why Aeris is waking her up sounds right as well, and I kind of like her complete re-assessment as she sees Aeris isn't brimming with joy - and that this can't simply be because it was a bad date or something. And I really like that it's Aeris who suggests they share the bed that night; even if Tifa is attributing that action to a complete different mind-set, and again trying to set herself up to cope with what she thinks is coming.

Oh, and that Aeris is more concerned with what is wrong with Tifa then telling her about the less then pleasant revelations about Cait Sith... and her reluctance to specify what she and Cloud had been doing (I was reading this as she possibly has an inkling about why Tifa is upset, but is pretty certain she's been asleep all the time she was out with Cloud, but she knows Tifa also likes Cloud and doesn't want to rub her nose in it. It also occurs to me, in this fic is taking Cloud on the date a kind of dual purpose to see what it is like to be in a relationship with Cloud, but also clear that incident out of the way and basically set Cloud and Tifa onto a level playing field as she's realising how she feels about both?)

Liking Aeris' shot of anger there as she mentions how Marlene is mixed up in events (is she assuming Elmyra was taken too? Despite that, and even though she only knew her briefly, I see Aeris being appalled and furious that Reeve would use Barret's daughter as a bargaining chip like that).

Oh! And I like that Tifa has gotten so used to sharing with Aeris now that sleeping without her is now difficult. I like!

[raaj]

Right now I think 'the bed is not big enough' is going to come from Aerith when, just as Tifa was about to slide into bed, Yuffie gets the idea and springs/forces her way into the other side. AERITH SANDWICH. She is kind of amused, but also wanting a tiny bit of her space back, come on guys. And yeah, I do like the idea of Yuffie kind of pulling this to make sure she's really being accepted back to the group (and completely agree with the timing of Wutai--it's not just the Turks that risk looking OOC, but Yuffie herself looks a bit odd if this is done after Aerith's death/Meteor's summoning. Mostly the pragmatics of "um you are with these guys to save the world, don't sabotage the group for Wutai pride right now", but it's also just that she has a smoother arc in getting attached to the group assuming she pissed everyone off first, was taken back by them and developed some loyalty through that itself, and then after being shaken up by Aerith's death and seeing Meteor summoned really is serious about staying with AVALANCHE, even if she's still flippant in outward attitude. It's the best timing for it to be before the Temple.)

Yeah, the "their own world" was indeed an official quote--and it's about Tifa getting jealous, even! So once I thought of that it was very tempting to include it and spin it in a slightly different light than it's normally taken: it's not that she doesn't want Aerith and Cloud to be so close, but she doesn't like feeling left out of that...

And yeah, since true polyamory isn't that common (as opposed to threesomes just hooking up for a night) I figured that even if Tifa has gotten used to the idea of her being bisexual (if Cloud-romantic for so long XD), she's probably not realizing "both" as a genuine option for any of them: Cloud is going to choose her or Aerith, Aerith probably isn't even thinking of options, and Tifa might even feel conflicted about the idea that she loves both of them (feeling she has to choose one to pursue, and I wasn't sure about getting too into this, but it also seemed possible that she might think loving Aerith is in some way her wanting to take the "easy" option--because Aerith is much more emotionally present and giving right now than Cloud. Not to knock on Cloud since he's definitely got reasons to be screwed up, that's just how it is at this point. Instead I touched on the converse, with Tifa feeling that if either of them needed her, it would be Cloud. ...Which isn't the best way to decide things in love but hey, Tifa's only twenty.)

I. HAVE TO ADMIT NOW TO BEING A BAD WRITER in both this scene and the first "Sleeping Arrangement" sequence I was not sure where I wanted Aerith to be up until a certain point in the writing so I just avoided mentioning that. (It probably doesn't help either that I tend to be pretty bare-bones in the details of setting a scene.) I'll have to fiddle more with that just to make it clear where she is, and I probably should also add in somewhere the set-up of the other rooms; I imagine Cloud, Cait Sith and Barret are in one room, with Cid, Vincent and Nanaki in the other. ...Already canon that Cid and Vincent are sharing their room that night and if Cait Sith only has to make sure Cloud and one other person are out of the room when he nabs the Keystone Cloud got from Dio it's so much easier--set up the ever-so-convenient "enchantment" night, which I can just imagine him telling both Tifa and Aerith about to try to give them ideas to distract Cloud, and Barret's probably hogging the rollar coaster shooter trying to win a prize for Marlene (...why am I now picturing him "cheating" with his gun-arm. lmfao and the attendant wants to argue with him but looks at the gunarm again and is like "WAIT... um... never mind! Wow sir, you have the high score! Take any stuffed animal, take all of them! Please leave me alone.") ...At one point I was planning to have Tifa leave the room while upset, kind of trying to walk it off, and she runs into Cait Sith who's incredibly sheepish as he'd just talked to Aerith about enchantment night and realizes that even if it's the best practical plan he's not exactly feeling the proudest of meddling in a love triangle. Cut that because I think I was worried about people assuming Aerith asking Cloud on the date was entirely impulsive (the when and how of it might have been, but she'd already been planning to take him out). But then since this is just Tifa's POV people are probably going to assume things anyway about some of Aerith's actions, and maybe I should just not worry about clearing up her intentions until "the one who didn't die". It might even help make it more sympathetic why Tifa misunderstands part of what she's doing.

...So, back on my writing, sometimes I think in very broad strokes of general feeling rather than focus on the specific anxieties--I was actually thinking yesterday morning that I might not have made Tifa's worries about the night itself concrete enough, and you just pointed out a very good way; I can't say you misread it because that does seem like what Tifa would worry about, that Cloud and Aerith are going to kiss or maybe do more, but I have to confess when I was writing I couldn't get it nailed down any further than "she thinks it'll be 'official' after this" in my head and never actually thought of specific milestones couples have. XD; Thank you, I'm probably going to adopt that thought in some way to give more solid detail in what Tifa is worried about happening.

We've talked a bit about those fics before! I remember talking about the characterization, anyway. Which I kind of agree, the characterization is a bit iffy...though I am a bit amused, I'd forgotten that part of Aerith's rationale about choosing Cloud over Tifa (in "Brusque") is the same as Tifa hedging about telling Aerith anything--not wanting to stray from Cloud, who seems to need them more. While I'd hesitate to say that would also sway Aerith in romance... maybe. Admittedly my one pet-peeve about Aerith's feelings being shown for Cloud post-game is that her thoughts center so much around him being emotionally fragile. But then, Advent Children is all about Cloud's problems. Otherwise, though, Tifa's reactions seem way too manipulative and Aerith seems much too passive/accepting of that--I see Aerith being very quickly disenchanted with anyone who would pull that on her.

Well, I don't think identifying with a character is wrong--shows Tifa's reaction can be related to? I know I've done myself being convinced that things are going wrong and trying to convince myself of the ways it's not so bad, even just having to lie down and make myself go to sleep because I know once I'm tired everything can be a worst case scenario and hoping whichever one's in my head won't seem so bad once I've woken up... I'm glad it seems right to you for her (I kind of worried too that I was making her too pessimistic).

Aerith is more awake than Tifa, so she's more clear-headed--wanting to tell Tifa about Cait Sith, but when she realizes Tifa already seems upset and far from well-rested she doesn't want to upset her further with the news, yeah. And she doesn't realize Tifa is already aware of the date, but like you said, she knows Tifa likes Cloud and she's not aiming to hurt her friend.

...The date does serve a dual purpose! Which is why I need to do the other half of the Gongaga incident and see if there's anything here I need to change for that. The first is that, yes, Aerith likes Cloud. The second is not about clearing the debt of one date, but clearing the air. I think I might have mentioned it before, but it's been a while, about how much I think Aerith knows/suspects about Cloud up to this point, since there's an interesting bit in her dialogue in the plot recap at the ghost hotel that night where she's about to say something else concerning the men in black cloaks but then stops herself, abruptly running off. Given her character it seems like she might have been brushing up against something upsetting. Hojo had shown interest in Cloud at the beach of Costa Del Sol, where she was there to see, and if her date happens that night she shows that she's aware he's not himself, and at the Temple of Ancients she doesn't seem surprised by his episodes even though she hasn't been in the party for previous ones... it really seems like she's aware at that point that Cloud may have been one of the black cloaks at some point, just left untattooed for some reason. For me Aerith's date isn't just about romance, it's about getting Cloud alone so she can try to broach the subject of his identity where it's one-on-one, he doesn't have to put himself up as the big damn leader for the group or anything... but Cloud's genuinely unaware of anything wrong with him, even after she's pointed to how he's acting in a strange way, and she's not sure how to keep going after that. It's not like there's concrete evidence for her suspicions, just a very strong intuition that she's learned to listen to.

....Pretty much, that Aerith wants to meet the real Cloud because she loves him, but because she loves him, she also wants to meet the real Cloud simply so she knows he can be okay and get past the mess in his head. Ties into the other Gongaga half because the girls miiight have talked about Cloud in there and there's a possibility of tying in that Aerith wants to help Cloud find himself for all three of them, knowing it's important for Tifa's relationship with him, too. (Probably would be more implied in the Gongaga bit--at first for this I wanted the girls to actually talk about the date with Tifa just being a bit snippy and Aerith being a bit sad/disappointed at being misunderstood but... I don't know, Aerith's response felt disingenuous since romance is involved. ...MAN there is a lot that might be potentially tweaked in here. First draft...!)

Aerith does think of her Mom if she's the date, and she's probably a little worried, but that is mostly about the fact that a sweet innocent girl she likes has been dragged into something she never should have been involved in.

Lots and lots of rambling here. In short: I'm glad you liked it, and that the little details felt right!

[sanctum_c]

Poor Aeris! But that's a cute image of her asking for just a little bit of her space back, but being thoroughly amused by the situation. And it feels really right that while everything has been said to be okay with reference to Yuffie, she'd still be a little nervous about any kind of sitancing - and if the other two are going to keep sharing the bed like that then she wants in to make sure she won't be left out. Very good point about Yuffie being OOC if Wutai occurs after Aeris' death (it is additionally odd that in any of the hacks for getting Aeris back in-game, the guides will normally suggest Wutai as one of the few places where she has any dialogue at all at that stage given its optional earlier status (plus I saw another really odd glitch for Aeris - there was a way of getting around to the other side of the Forgotten City and walking in through the path that leads out to Icicle Inn. As long as this is done before the Temple of the Ancients, the normal sequence will play out, but Aeris remains as a possible character - providing she wasn't in the team at the altar (which apparently will crash the game))... though I think someone combed through the game-script and found the other instances of dialogue for her that was ultimately never used; like after snowboarding...)... and now I'm wondering what would happen if you went to Wutai after escaping from Junon but before finding Cloud in Mideel? I know you investigated the world setup a bit, but I think you'd already done Wutai and found Vincent at the time. I'd like to think the game wouldn't let that sequence trigger as normal, but it would be odd to see Tifa in charge of chasing Yuffie around (or indeed Cid thinking about it). I very much agree that for Yuffie as a character, that placement of the section makes sense (and while its optional, if you have Yuffie she does hint on going that way - plus I think game-play wise it feels like going forward away from Rocket Town would be a better course of action then returning...)

I do like that re-appropriation of the quote like that as well...

That's an interesting point about true polyamory not being common; when I was trying to do my own not entirely happy Clarity idea before I was curious as how to have it develop... or rather how someone would actually work up the nerve to lay the situation out - without a convenient meddling Yuffie who's largely able to confirm that everything is going to be okay, you just need to all get onto the same page first (and then that they owe her big time for getting them through that). So I did briefly skirmish looking for literary or real-world examples, and... really didn't get very far. There must be some somewhere, but the hooking up for a night seems to be the majority usage (I think its just hard to conceive actually broaching that subject in any kind of situation - unless it was amazingly blatant, and even then there would be that niggling fear that you must be misreading the situation), and even then I suspect a lot of examples are more overlapping pairings rather then a genuine triangle relationship. So, yeah I can see even if Tifa is now used to the idea of being bisexual, both isn't going to seem like an option as its really not the norm (now I'm wondering if Tifa's thoughts started on this route after seeing Miss Cloud... (shades of Barret in 'Full House Shuffle' there though)). And her estimations of how the other two's feelings will likely lie... and the thought process for which if she was choosing one... Heh; so easy to forget that Tifa is only twenty - and at least by word of god, not someone who had many, if any, other relationships.

You're not a bad writer! Or at least I've done similar mistakes and other weirdness, and this is a first version and these things happen (I was utterly dismayed when I had Aeris swimming in the sewers at the start of 'A Series' and then later specified she couldn't swim and thus Tifa taught her. That one lasted a worrying length of time before I realised it made no sense at all). And I do the bare-bones detail of setting a scene as well. Mostly I figure that if someone is reading the fic then they would be familiar to the characters (so they need less descriptions) and unless its a completely new location, they'd hopefully recognise the layout/design of wherever the scene is (and the Gold Saucer hotel is something I've seen so many times due to various date videos... and even without that, its easy to imagine the layout of any inn room with the three beds in a row).

Huh. I never remembered that Vincent and Cid in the same room was canon (so that's where Valenwind comes from...), but yeah those room assignments make sense (and amusingly if you took that specific room assignment for the game, it makes Barret's date the absolute easiest for Cait Sith to steal the keystone in as he guarantees knowing where both of them are...). I like the idea of him mentioning the specifics of Enchantment night to all three of the girls (only Yuffie zonks out in the room almost immediately), and that's a great image of Barret on the roller coaster! (Plus the staff are going to be veeeeeery twitchy after Dyne's massacre).

Sounds a good plan to keep Aeris' motivations unclear and allow those assumptions to creep in - and then clear them up in the latter stages. And yeah, from Tifa's POV it is likely going to seem impulsive regardless unless Aeris had been dropping hints all evening (which I've seen done in other fics where Tifa realises exactly what's going on, and Aeris is vey carefully getting ready for something but being as evasive as possible as to what - ultimately pointlessly...)

No problem for the idea! It just felt like a big enough mile-stone (I am... vaguely aware that some relationships can start with a couple just declaring themselves official, maybe working up from just holding hands... so... Tifa could be worried about the officialness/seeing them holding hands, but personal experience again - it's seeing the couple kiss that really gets to you - and that felt a better thing to worry about (and I could see her further worrying that Aeris might not be there the next morning with all that implies (thought that has an additional complication of specifying where Barret or Cait Sith would have wound up...))). Though I would say the broad-strokes were also fine since I wound up reading all kinds of things into it. So maybe a mix of both?

Ah, I wondered if I'd mentioned those fics before - and yeah I do remember I think I brought them up as characterisation gone wrong for both of them. That is kind of amusing on the similarity of the mind-sets and why they're considering those choices. I admit to not entirely being sold on that being Aeris' eventual rationale for choosing Cloud like that. But as you said, maybe. But yeah, in 'Brusque' Tifa does seem too manipulative and aggressive, and Aeris is too passive/accepting (and from that since its a split version of the same events, its hard to really feel very happy for the original version if Tifa is on that kind of knife-edge); your version of the hypothetical situation in this fic feels vastly better.

Ah, sorry I confused that response a bit; I didn't mean it was bad I could identify with Tifa (that in and of itself is really good as it means the character can be related to as you said), I meant more that her mindset felt so very close to my own, but I was just wary of how IC that would be. Not that I'm suggesting you have her OOC or anything (she sounds IC to me), just wary of how much I personally identified with it... (I'll shut up now). And yes! I've done that too, try to mitigate/figure out the not so bad options - and hoping they won't be as bad in the morning...

I do vaguely recall that comment about Aeris cutting herself off at the Gold Saucer, but I'd forgotten about it - and that is an intriguing suggestion that she has put together how Cloud is connected to the black-cloaks, and she doesn't want to voice it due to all the implications... And hey, that is a good point about his reaction at the Temple... I do like this idea that she has either partly figured out, or is beginning to entertain the idea that Cloud has a closer connection to Sephiroth then any of them realised... And I do like that estimation of the date - which does fit much better with the actual dialogue then trying to be romantic (...dammit, why is 'Love Not Often' so standard a reference for me?! I was just going to comment that that had...well... actually a kind of dubious reason for the date (Tifa is unconcious from being nearly drowned, I'll go spend the night with Cloud), which was I think as she wanted to put aside her destiny for one night). Really liking that Aeris hints strongly but then has to pause - no evidence as you said, but a sense of something wrong - and with Cloud so sure of himself (I think Gongaga is the first real moment he questions himself - apart from that really weird line you mentioned in the Beginner's Hall (I think - wherever the save-point tutorial was)).

Haha. Indeed, first draft! Lots of opportunities for amendments/corrections. And I still do favour that line from Aeris about wanting to meet the real Cloud - and your implications there are great.

(not to worry on html; I've done that loads of times as well. Plus I keep forgetting to actually use it in responses)

[raaj]

At first I wanted to wait until the second scene was written to respond so I could put that in the response... It's becoming apparent I shouldn't do that. (I keep stumbling on the transition.) So!

Tifa and Cid can chase Yuffie around in Wutai, actually. I haven't done it myself but I've seen the scripted bits for it (and there's topics about it online). ...That glitch to keep Aerith is very tempting to try, though... I did know about the snowboarding glitch--there's also one for her in Rocket Town that's at a later point in the game, iirc? So you can't get it with her on the normal playthrough but then if you've snuck her back in after her death you get it--involves an NPC with a lame sense of humor.

Most of the real world examples for polyamory that I can think of myself are one-sided--that is, a husband might have two wives and they may all live together and get along fine, but the wives aren't interested in each other. So polygamy, really. I know there was a polyamory community on LJ I browsed through once, though I can't quite remember the name, and it looks like there's been ones on DW but not having luck with currently active ones... still I'd say that's probably the best bet, to try to look for online communities where people in polyamorous relationships/searching to be one can talk to each other and share advice for handling relationship issues. They're not big but do exist (the internet lets everything exist).

I think with Tifa being interested in both of them--well she was always interested in Cloud, since the well, so. And I imagine with Aerith it was both that "click" and a sense of intrigue deepening through their journey... (In regards to her also being interested in girls, I think she actually realized a few years before game start, kind of in startled surprise after she heard a confession from another girl, but never thought too hard about it because she wasn't looking for romance in Midgar. Terrorism being kind of in the way.)

(At the moment I am actually slightly tempted to have a first little tease at the threesome/Aerith realizing that she needs to talk things out with Cloud and Tifa when they rescue her from Hojo--Aerith being so happy she actually does go and kiss Tifa, and Tifa starts returning it before realizing THEY'RE IN FRONT OF EVERYONE. Cue a really awkward moment from the group because no one, including the girls, was expecting that to happen, and Cloud's kind of like... he's really happy Aerith is safe now. And he's not exactly upset about seeing two women he finds beautiful kissing in front of him. But he does feel a little confused about the implications setting in until Aerith goes and kisses him--and then asks Cid if she can kiss him too or if he's got tar-breath right now with Cid going @#%# glad yer alright girl but keep your touchy-feely crap away from me, and everyone is like oh, alright. It's just Aerith being Aerith and very happy...?

And Aerith's like ffff I want to make this work already.)

Hehe, I know I'm alright as a fic writer but I do dislike knowing right where my faults lie. Still, it is a first draft. It'll get fixed...! (I forget--for "A Series Of..." did you keep her knowing how to swim, or change it to Tifa teaching her?)

Yes, that is where Valenwind comes from. ;) --And that's true! Cait Sith would have found it a walk in the park with the Barret date. Though I imagine he might have fed Barret the idea of getting Marlene stuffed toys too to help his plan anyway.

...I am very tempted to use that worry about if Aerith will even be back in the room. Although then she might be partially relieved that Aerith is back in the room when she's shaking her awake. And I'm not sure Tifa really think Aerith and Cloud would move that quickly, Cloud's tremendously forward-and-awkward-for-it possible flirting aside. So...I guess I probably will keep it to either kissing or "they'll confirm it with each other, they'll be a couple and I'll be third wheel" worries--the worry of them having sex is compelling, but yeah, I'm just not sure Tifa would actually expect that of them. Very torn there.

And very agreed that the split version of "Brusque" makes the original kind of...eh. Not exactly nice implications there!

Haha, the date is romantic for me in the broader picture, but yeah, at that moment Aerith isn't really trying to be romantic with Cloud. More like "please stop being crazy we like you" with it just zooming over Cloud's little spiky brain. That...is a very dubious reason for her to go on the date; I can see her wanting to have fun and, um, okay Tifa is unconscious (...I keep thinking Aerith would stay with her to make sure she's alright even if this might be her last night of possible fun--but maybe she already knows she's okay, just needs time to wake up), but isn't it possible for her to have like, done something with Yuffie? Or mutually shanghai Cloud with Yuffie, which sounds like another hilarious threesome date in the making. Or just...drag Cloud out, without making it a date. They could have gone on the rollar coaster or w/e. .......it is a dubious reason, it bugs me.

The odd tutorial line is actually in Junon's Intermediate Hall, rather than the Beginner's Hall. ...I really do know some details way too well, haha. But yeah, I think I'm set with this take on Aerith's date--Tifa can misunderstand it, and then hopefully it'll be made clear later on...!

[sanctum_c]

Ah, that is kinda good the game copes with Tifa or Cid as the party leader like that; but still, tonally it feels odd to put it at that time-frame. The glitch... yeah very tempting; I'm not sure how easy it is to do with an actual PSX - the video I saw was on an emulator and basically involves catching a chocobo, switching the game disc for another (Saga Frontier (and ONLY that one for some reason)). This then breaks the world map so the chocobo behaves like a gold chocobo and you can run right up to the Northern Continent and get around the back of the Forgotten City. Then you switch game discs back, trigger a random battle (to set the map back to something coherent) and play through the Forgotten City as per the norm. And as soon as you get to disc 2, go to a save-point and switch Aeris back in! Ah, yeah I heard about the Rocket Town one too. That one's actually tougher to explain (unless whatever event that relates to was originally earlier in the game) then the snowboarding which at least points to that notion she was meant to die at the crater...

...now that sounds an excellent idea for research. ...really should have realized that of course they'd be communities like that... Hooray internets!

That sounds good for Tifa's realisation/not thinking about it due to her involvement with a terrorist group (though they would be thinking of themselves as freedom fighters/saviors of the Planet. Plus the majority of the deaths (excepting things like de-powering hospitals) would be due to Jessie's unfortunate miscalculations...), and I like the idea of her catching the eye some patron of the Seventh Heaven and not quite knowing what to do about it...

Oh! Loving the potential for that first tease at the threesome... (and for a while I was thinking, but that can't be Cid can it? If they're rescuing Aeris from Hojo that would surely be the Shinra building and way before they met Cid, so surely that would be Barret she'd be asking to kiss. Then I remembered this is a canon-splice that turns into an AU, so this would be the later, post-Crater rescue of Aeris, and now I'm on the right page again!). That sounds really right that Aeris is so happy and just kisses Tifa like that... And heh - yeah Cloud is reeeeally not going to be upset at seeing them kissing in front of him, but might be worried about how he now stands until Aeris kisses him too. And for a moment he entertains the notion of the three of them... and then Aeries asks to kiss Cid which confused Cloud. And everyone just thinks she's being herself like you said... But secretly Aeris has now realised how she wants things to work.

And indeed first draft and to be fixed later on! (ah, and I sacrificed Aeris knowing how to swim and let Tifa teach her at Costa del Sol. I realised that really while there might be a public swimming pool in Midgar, it either wouldn't be very safe (if in the slums) or likely to let slum-dwellers in (if on the plate) and ground water int he city would potentially be hazardous... So it was kind of hard to see where she could have learnt. Tifa on the other hand I could see learning in childhood in a small lake somewhere in the Nibel mountains. And even then I kind of cheated as I had Aeris haul an unconcious Cloud out from where he'd fallen one-handed while she kept her self above "water" with the other hand. ...on reflection, those were curious deep sewers I had them fall into...)

I always did wonder if there was some canon basis for Valenwind; it was just too prevalent with so little going for it (while most of the SOLDIER pairings seem almost setup for people to read into an unspoken/undepicted relationship).

I'd concur that Tifa wouldn't really think that Aeris and Cloud would move that fast, but its again one of those horribly annoying and depressing thoughts that can occur in these situations - and as much as you tell yourself that's massively too fast for that couple, the sheer possibility that maybe they will throw caution to the wind/get more passionate then you'd like... So... I'd say she knows deep down sex isn't remotely a possibility after the date (though kissing is plausible), but that unfortunately doesn't stop her worrying about it. Though again, just my take on that mind-set in that kind of situation (which might indicate I just over-think these kind of things...). But yeah, I can easily see it either way (maybe have her worry Aeris won't come back that evening, and dismiss the possibility? Even then there is an uncomfortable if less fast moving possibility of worry; Aeris could stay in Cloud's room and nothing actually happen, but she has spent the night with him even if its just sleeping in the same room/possibly same bed but fully clothed - not entirely advancing in relationship terms, but certainly indicative of a new level of intimacy - which might also feel worse after the tent near Gongaga, now Cloud has narrowed to one person he wants to sleep beside...)

...started rambling a bit there.

Very amused by the "Please stop being crazy, we like you" meaning to the date! And yeah, the 'Love Not Often' one was just uncomfortable to read like that; if Aeris cared so much for Tifa she really wouldn't want to leave her alone like that (then again that was a bit of a nuisance fault with how that relationship was handled in the fic as Aeris just never seemed to be on the same page as Tifa) - some deal made ages ago with Cloud regardless. True, maybe she does realise she just needs rest, but I'd like to think I'd be very difficult to pry away from someone's beside in that situation. And yeah, there were lots of options for things she could have done - especially the going out but not making it a date (though, now the idea of going out with Yuffie and Cloud is appealing for the other threesome date idea!)

Ah, I completely forgot there was a place in Junon like that! I really need to replay the game and get beyond Midgar again...

And yeah, that does sound fine to have Tifa misinterpret things for now; they can at least be cleared up later on to everyone's satisfaction.

[raaj]

...Ah yeah, I don't think I'm going to do that glitch then orz

(though on the note of Tifa/Cid as party leader--was kind of amused to realize that one of the screencaps in a Barret photoset I just found IS the start of the Wutai sidequest with Tifa-as-leader.)

Well yes, Tifa does think of herself differently / puts "terrorist" down to "Shinra PR" (and yeah, as far as we know all civilian deaths were unintended)...

I just like the idea that since Tifa IS popular as the "angel of the slums" she probably has heard one or two confessions from both sides and been like "...wait. So girls are an option too!" I mean. In Nibelheim she had pretty much all the boys take her out to the water tower at some point, it's not hard to see her getting a number of confessions with alcohol around to loosen tongues. XD

Yes, the second post-Crater rescue! So Cid can be there. XD

And heh - yeah Cloud is reeeeally not going to be upset at seeing them kissing in front of him, but might be worried about how he now stands until Aeris kisses him too. And for a moment he entertains the notion of the three of them...

I'm not sure he'd even get enough time to worry before he gets kissed--more like one incredibly confused moment of "Wait I thought I understood you two now--what???" And then, yes, he gets kissed. And maybe entertains thoughts of threesome. (I don't know exactly what makes this so appealing but it is kind of tempting to play Cloud as like traditionally inclined but at the same time so practical-minded that every once in a while he gets a crazy idea and is like "Wait why should this be wrong? If my people are happy, I'm happy until I get scared that I will fail them all and unhappy their happy." In this case the idea is definitely "Is both an option? Why not both?")

on reflection, those were curious deep sewers I had them fall into

Well, pretty much any video game sewer system is absurdly spacious compared to how it should be...it's actually a trope of its own.

Yeah...I think I can see that reasoning for the sex worry...especially as they ARE all adults and. well. It's ~Enchantment Night~. Something she doesn't think will happen, but it's on the table of hypotheticals... And aww, yeah, I can definitely see worry of Aerith and Cloud cuddling up (well. ...it's just easy to see Aerith cuddling up with almost ANYONE as a comfort thing, so that's not quite fair. XD)

I guess I can never really see Aerith being that beholden to the deal with Cloud because it's fully possible to play through the game without that date happening. I suppose that one could argue that's because no one expected Aerith to die that suddenly, but pretty much--it's only Aerith who ever mentions the date deal. There's no IC evidence that Cloud is holding her to it and I just personally see it as even though he says "it'll cost you" he wasn't at any point intending to leave her high and dry (especially since he said "I'll do it...but it'll cost you", before she offers the date--he agreed to do it before even knowing what she could offer). It seems most IC for me if Aerith realizes long before that she doesn't like Cloud romantically to be like "hey, let's switch it to X!" or just make it clear it's a "friendly date". idk.

...I skipped transitioning and kind of wrote part of the next scene and am now questioning myself on everything. ...Actually I think I just realized part of the problem: there's a place where Aerith really should bring up Sephiroth as the one messing with Cloud and she didn't which made the conversation go a strained way...time to change a few paragraphs I guess. What there is so far:

Cait Sith was acting funny. That was honestly what caught Tifa and Barret's attention to know that anything was going on: because Nanaki had already disappeared from the ledge of the pit, Cait's funny little antsy dance he did when he was worked up about something was the only thing to see.

Cait (or his replacement) was worked up, and Nanaki had followed Cloud and Aerith down into the pit? Tifa came running, thinking they might be in trouble. Barret hollered in surprise before following, but she was fast as a jackrabbit and heedless of what she might be running into. Even as the substitute robot finished descending into the hollow pit, Tifa had bypassed carved handholds entirely, bounding between two walls to lower herself before she caught a sight that made her drop the rest of the height immediately and scream.

"Red, what are you doing?! Stop it!"

The beast couldn't answer her. There was a growl deep in his throat, and his tail thrashed the ground, seeming to throw up embers with each scattering of dust. Tifa's eyes were fastened on his mouth, half-open, teeth poised near Cloud's neck which was exposed as the swordsman laid on his side in a heap. Nanaki's face seemed oddly repelled rather than blood-lusty, but she couldn't square that with her childhood friend being inches away from a ripped-out jugular, his visible shoulder showing fresh claw marks... and Aerith, just beyond them, was another sight of horror; either fainted or too dazed to say anything, a silent crumple of pink against the wall, the poor girl had already been hurt herself--god, she'd been hit hard enough that the bruises were already forming on her arms. There was a mess of blood from her nose.

Tifa took all the madness in, struggling to sort anything out but ready to so help her god wrestle Red off if that was what needed doing when Cait Sith, cat and mog both, waved frantic arms again. "Lass, calm down! He was protecting her!"

--What? She would have demanded answers, but he was already turning to Nanaki, and...

"Red, fella, he's out like a light, don't fret. Can ye let 'im go before everyone else has a heart attack?"

...even as she thought numbly that Cait Sith was much too late on that account (a din of shouting and expletives had already erupted above), she had noticed the blood on Cloud's knuckles. They weren't injured.

And Aerith's wounds... she could recognize a punch when she saw it. Or several.

Nanaki slowly pulled back from Cloud. His mouth closed; his good eye looked to Tifa, and she could see the same emotions she felt: confusion, shock, and an agitation born from horror. "A true warrior would not...he--why would he hurt her?"

"He wouldn't..."

"D, didn't." Aerith's head slowly lifted, the girl wincing as she tried to straighten herself out. Nanaki was quickly at her side, gently butting his head against her to help her sit up; Tifa took the other side to steady her friend, even as she took one last worried look at Cloud's pale, pinched face. Didn't? She hoped didn't. Cloud would never hurt Aerith. It just wasn't right.

"What happened?" she asked.

Glazed green eyes came together to focus, or tried to, and Tifa's stomach turned as she spotted red peeking out from the peach and brown of Aerith's hairline. Why hadn't she already readied her Restore? Immediately her energy was focused on it.

"A nightmare," came the slow answer, slurred past the broken nose; Aerith's "v"s and "t"s had become thick. "Never knew there were such bad nightmares...ah...got too close, I guess. Wasn't..."

While I really wanted to do this section after having the idea of Aerith comparing Cloud coming out of Sephiroth's control as pretty much a very worst-case scenario of him coming out of the nightmare at Gongaga, disoriented and not really "back in reality"--she also just would likely add in Sephiroth's name as part of the reason why he got messed up.

...Also I really should respond to other messages tomorrow morning as I keep lying down and dozing slightly now.

[sanctum_c]

Ack - shame. Though, I can't either lacking in Saga Frontier (but I do have an emulator). The only other way I know of doing that is to use a GameShark (never released over here), or some meddling with the PC version (which if I remember right isn't a viable option for you unfortunately), but I really don't know how to do that... Sorry for raising your hopes there!

(For the alternate party leaders; that's kinda cool on those screenshots - and I did wonder when I saw Barret/Tifa and I think Vincent in one of the screenshots)

There was an odd discussion I saw a while ago (it might have been while I was trying to find other fan-fiction sources/more non-explicit doujins for FFVII) about how Avalanche was overreacting to Shinra/actively were kind of the villains (and not in a BC sense either). Which...in some way has some things going for it (while ultimately whether you remove the Huge Materia from the Shinra-26 or not has no bearing on the plot, no one *knew* it wasn't going to work, yet Avalanche did stop them), but some of the other arguments were... weird. Like if they disagreed with the power production and how Shinra operated they should leave Midgar (which appeared to be forgetting the very real threat that as Mako production went up the Lifestream would be strained and implied never getting replenished, and this would ultimately destroy the Planet. Plus the fact that Shinra operated their own private army, conducted human experimentation, were responsible to *no one*, demolished 1/16th of their own city to stop Avalanche, employed the Turks (and you went over the odd ethical arguments associated with them and hiring them to do stuff just the other day)). It just seems that Avalanche's actions are an order of magnitude less bad, and its still a bit ambiguous as to how many died in the Reactor explosions - since the news reports would be Shinra influenced it could say anything they want. That said, I would have thought Cait Sith/Reeve would know the truth, and while he never says the death toll, the way he phrases it to Barret implies its much higher then he'd like.

Ah, I like that moment of realisation from Tifa, and for all its problems, Midgar does seem like a decidedly cosmopolitan place contrasted to a backwater town like Nibelheim. It does feel right for that to have happened, and I can see her being really surprised the first time, but then gets increasingly used to the idea...

Heh - even just one moment of Cloud confusion before Aeris reaches him would be fun though; especially the "I thought I understood you two..." I concur there is something appealling about making Cloud traditionally inclined like that; he's been worried the entire time about being with Aeris or Tifa, and then letting the other down as he's... reasonably sure they like him as more then just friends, but he doesn't want to hurt either. But upon seeing Aeris kiss Tifa like that, and possibly more importantly seeing Tifa respond to the kiss and not get freaked out or something, that's what makes him consider the threesome - working off as you said the "Why should this be wrong/is both an option/why not both?" Then he starts fretting about how to actually raise that as a discussion...

Haha - true, very true sewers are oddly huge in video games (that and other subterranean waterways; like in XII, and I think VIII (I don't think those were sewers under Deling at least)...

Ah - yes, given the additional romantic possibilities of an event like "Enchantment Night" (which it is kind of tempting to make something that Reeve/Shinra have hastily arranged as part of trapping Avalanche in the Gold Saucer), then Tifa is going to be nervous, despite knowing it remains only hypothetical, but just because its unlikely but not actively impossible wouldn't be a great thought (I worry a bit I keep getting fixated on the ways Tifa is going to feel *terrible* during that sequence. Though I suppose the more her worries mis-match to what actually happens, the more relieved she'll feel). So very true, Aeris would happily curl up with anyone for the night - and yeah, while not quite fair, its again part of Tifa wanting to sleep beside her, so she might feel jealous at her doing that regardless...

Tis a good point about Aeris never seeming beholden to the date (and based on the interpretation of Dismantled (the play-park scene) combined with getting one of the other dates it can be construed that the date was paid off almost immediately). Interesting that Aeris is the only one who holds Cloud to the date; and excellent point about how the deal was even made - Cloud was not about to leave her no matter what she said. So, I'd agree, if Aeris did realise she didn't feel that way about Cloud she would change the nature of the payment, and its easier to see her saying in those circumstances "Let's go out. Just as friends for the evening" or something...

I like some of the changes here from canon (as if I remember correctly Cait Sith is the one to subdue Cloud, and seemingly odd everyone else is absent from the scene), and Nanaki's stance which at first glance is going to be so misinterpreted... But this was an effectively dark take on the scene, and the mounting horror as Tifa puts the sequence together. I confess to being... slightly weirded out by Cait Sith's speech pattern; I know its from AC/C and Dirge (and possibly whoever translated BC) but it is pretty much at odds with VII... but that's just me, and I've never quite taken to him sounding like that (that said as an equivalent accent to the actual accenting he has in-game (for some reason I want to say Osakan, but I could easily be making that up) it does at least distinguish him easily from the others).

Nanaki's shock at Cloud from an honorable warrior perspective is also a nice touch as well - and something that it feels the game really could have made more of then it did. I do see the point of Aeris not mentioning Sephiroth is a little off as how Cloud was being influenced was very clear in-game to an observer. That said, I do kind of like that initial answer of a nightmare; not very helpful in explaining what happened, but it feels like it fits... And I like that connection back to the nightmare at Gongaga like that - that's a nice loop around...

And ack! Sleeps sounds a good plan. Hope you slept well.

[raaj]

(Yep, that Barret, Tifa, Vincent screenshot was the one I was talking about! Wutai sidequest beginning... Barret's so mad. XD)

Er...yeah. While AVALANCHE has screwed up morally, and then there were places the writing didn't quite succeed in justifying them as right (without any mention that they could be wrong either)--huge materia, hi--I would seriously boggle at any argument that they're the real villains. (...well the upper plate was pretty much ruined by the drop too, so I'd say that's a good 1/8th of the city destroyed by its own makers). But yes, they did definitely screw up, Reeve's tone makes it clear.

With Cloud I think part of it is that he's had so few relationships/chances to really connect with people that all that comes to mind are the "tried and true" traditional ways--and yeah, he wouldn't expect both girls to be becoming maybe more than friends, so he'd have to pick one or the other and he's just like "nope that means I'm gonna hurt one orz"--but then as he finally starts building his new life, and building new relationships, he's open to accept a lot of new things, if it makes the people he loves happier. so I really do make Cloud a ridiculous sap I'm not sure how really relationship-aware I want to make him at that point really, or how to build it (I know we've talked a bit about that quote where he's "none the wiser" to their feelings on disc one, so it's kind of building up to both him realizing, wait, the flirting is serious...and then crap, he does love both of them and he's going to have to hurt one nope nope nope). I kind of wanted to play with that in the Lifestream sequence after he calls Aerith out of hiding--the girls having an awkward moment because they had that earlier argument, and him wondering out loud why either of them should look uncomfortable, they're all together and everyone's okay now... and maybe that's when the "love triangle" clicks in his head and he realizes, when up to that point it was just "they both worry about me and I worry about them" and then NOPE now he's remembered the childhood crush on Tifa, now he's recognizing more accurately and seriously how he feels about both of them and how they seem to feel about him, and goddammit. (Though at least him musing about it out loud would probably help prod the girls past their awkwardness/and maybe help Aerith be more sure that it IS both of them she wants to be with/she doesn't want to come between Cloud and Tifa, either. ...Also depending on how dramatic I want to do the Hojo situation I was considering her realizing at this point that being with both Cloud and Tifa is her "Promised Land", what she really wants to pursue.) ...And then when they find Aerith she kisses Tifa. WHIPLASH. Cloud concludes nothing makes sense to him anymore--oh hello he has an armful of Aerith and a pleasant kiss, maybe they really can be all together?--aaaaaand now she's teasing Cid about kisses. Aerith.

...I see Cloud in this span of time going back to the mental drawing board a lot and concluding that he should just worry about the damn meteor because nothing about romance makes sense to him. And it is, justifiably, the more important thing. hahaha. but he also just wants to avoid hurting someone he loves.

The Deling underground is actually included in the sewers trope examples! It seemed like a sewer to me, though one even bigger than the usual absurd spaciousness.

It is a really nice touch for Reeve/Shinra to have hastily cooked the Enchantment night--though I don't know how much I'm going to touch on the events past that night itself. Maybe he could make a throwaway comment about it in one of the later stories...

The scene isn't actually diverting from canon! Or meant to be anyway. Just extrapolating on it. The thing is, any character can be the one to subdue Cloud (...beside Aerith. For obvious reasons.) It really just depends who your third party member is in the Temple; there's a video here where it's Tifa herself, for example. If your third party member is Cait Sith, he'll be the only one present as a witness; otherwise there's two people who see Cloud attack Aerith (strangely the third party member will never notice Sephiroth as they're looking around the perimeter. The idea seems to be that, as Cloud was hesitant about letting Cait Sith be the sacrifice suspecting some Shinra plot, they're probably keeping an eye out for any other Turks being sent in/Elena coming back...). The third party member is the one who knocks out Cloud, and there the game cuts to Cloud's dream, so I figured it wouldn't contradict anything to have had the rest of the group be nearby but at a further distance and notice that something's up with Cait Sith/Nanaki's no longer in sight (so really, by the time Tifa and Barret even noticed anything, Cloud was already unconscious). I chose Nanaki/left Tifa out of the party...for a variety of reasons, really: I wanted to include other AVALANCHE teammates in the story events; thought it made sense for Tifa to kind of be on Barret-watch after Cloud breaks it to him that Marlene is... (arguably the other course is that Cloud and Aerith just don't tell Barret, but that didn't seem quite right? ...and I imagine that Tifa-on-Barret-watch is really this unspoken deal where Cloud comes up to her after she's already seen how thunderous Barret is this morning and she knows he knows so before Cloud can even say or do anything beyond looking vaguely apologetic about the whole mess she's just like mhm she knows what she's doing today. Making sure her friend doesn't lose his head over his baby girl and being there for him.); Tifa might want some distance from Cloud and Aerith after the date; ...I just didn't want Tifa in the temple for Cait Sith's prediction (AHAHA Aerith why do you have no tact. I actually kind of like that she asks that even if Tifa is with them for characterization and flaws, but it seemed like an unnecessary wrinkle for this given the other tension that's supposed to come up between the girls); Nanaki seemed like he'd be interested in the temple, so it was easy to see him volunteering to go in; and Nanaki is one of the two characters who will shout to Aerith during the beating before subduing Cloud (the other is Yuffie), and even before I confirmed that it was just very easy to see him trying to comfort Aerith in his own awkward way (originally she was supposed to have been conscious the entire time, and Tifa was going to come down to see Cloud unconscious and Nanaki letting Aerith pet him while nudging her to try to calm her. ...and then I thought of this and yes).

Lots of little thoughts and I forget what actually came first. XD; But I am actually trying to stick to game events as shown, just with additional scenes, until the moment at the altar, so...please keep pointing out if something seems to contradict canon to you! So I don't go from "adding onto canon" to "altering canon" before schedule. (And hopefully that makes sense for what's going on? I do probably need to take care to set the scene for the passing of time before Tifa and Barret realize what's happened/make the party's locations clear.)

I must confess writing Cait Sith's lines was a little odd for me, so I may go back, reread his game lines and try to alter it to that quirk (as he does have a bit of a speech quirk even in the game: "Right pleased to meet you!" and stuff like that). But seriously for part of this I was like "wait, is that actually Scottish or am I making him Irish now? My accents are terrible." Haha. But I did kind of have fun embellishing the one line where he's like "Okay Red you did a good job, Cloud's not going to hurt anyone else, so please stop before someone thinks you're the problem". Idk it's just tempting to think that outside of Vincent, Cait Sith and Reeve are probably the most capable of being rational at the moment due to one half being robotic/the other half being physically removed from any danger and Cait Sith sees the whole mess no matter how it goes down, so it's very easy to see Reeve being glued to his Cait Cave (or you know. whatever he calls that workstation) and just thinking "oh good lord, some of you have hair triggers even on good days. We need to calm everyone down before this finds a way to get worse."

Nanaki's shock at Cloud from an honorable warrior perspective is also a nice touch as well - and something that it feels the game really could have made more of then it did.

The game is admittedly a little odd about everyone handling Cloud's weirdness. It's rather endearing for the most part that everyone pretty much accepts Cloud as leader, glitches and all, but it does feel like both incidents with Aerith should have gotten him called a lot more into question--not even necessarily as "how could you?!" or concern about his character, just a very real worry that uh yeah, something is not right here. (and to be honest when writing "the one who didn't die" I felt like things went flimsy at that moment when Cloud acknowledges that he did hear something from Sephiroth--and that being AU doesn't even include him nearly killing Aerith, it's just that he already tried he already went bizarre at the Temple with Sephiroth nearby. I might take that out as I rework the fic to fit with Sleeping Arrangements, as it's not clear anyway in the game if Cloud is saying that to anyone else or just himself, even though it's in response to a teammate's question.) So I'm trying to work out how to handle things after the beating here; because yeah, it seemed right to me that anyone would be horrified about what Cloud was doing, heck they all are in that scene, and with Nanaki's upbringing and initially thinking it was only Cloud acting there it's framed as what an honorable warrior, as he's seen Cloud so far to be, should do--certainly not attack allies. Aerith is definitely going to make it clear she doesn't consider Cloud at fault, and probably say something about Cloud needing everyone's support right now...it's just still something to think about. (Though I kind of wonder if that's maybe an overall flaw of the group--that they keep pushing themselves and punishing themselves in various ways, that even when it's kind of obvious something is wrong with Cloud they let him keep pushing himself instead of stepping in. ...dunno how to clearly define that thought.)

Rambly tonight.

[sanctum_c]

...somehow whenever I think of Sector Seven, I never reconcile it is both above and below plate that are decimated by the plate-drop (d'oh). But yes, to make out that Avalanche are the villains... did they even play the same game (maybe if someone only ever played BC and heard that Avalanche were the heroes in FFVII - that I can kind of see as a flawed interpretation of the series)?

That is one of the interesting inferences about Cloud; with all the ostracising in Nibelheim and then when he returns, it really doesn't feel like he's had many relationships, if any at all (neatly paralleling Tifa who also hasn't officially); so I really can see him sticking to the tried and true traditional ways/not even begin to entertain both girls becoming that close to him (/depending on how traditionalist you wanted to push him, Cloud could at an earlier stage be firmly believing it should be sex after marriage; though presumably two years in Midgar might indicate this isn't a very widely accepted stance). I do like that idea of him building a new life and wanting to make the people he loves happier; and if that does mean both, then so be it! Haha - I like that realistion process (wait the flirting was serious... and ooooh, he does really feel so storngly about both...)

That sounds good for the Lifestream sequence, and I like the train of thought in his head; especially with it tying into him regaining the accurate memories. And the musing out loud/almost distractedly by Cloud sounds a neat way to get the situation voiced without actually sitting down and having a nerve-wracking talk where at least one of them (or all of them) is petrified of saying something that's going to deter the other two... And that would be really nice for Aeris to think of Cloud and Tifa as her promised land like that (...oddly if Hojo ever finds out about that I can see him rolling his eyes and muttering about stupid human relationships. Dammit she's supposed to be a dowsing rod for Mako!).

And poor Cloud for that reunited scene; Aeris kisses Tifa - nothing makes sense, Aeris kisses him - it could be three of them, Aeris asks to kiss Cid - huh. That's Aeris for you (oh, I've got to say, there's something I really like about the phrase "he has an armful of Aeris and a pleasant kiss", which really invokes her throwing her arms around him and pressing into him as she kisses him)

Really liking Cloud's return to the drawing board and concluding that worrying about Meteor is more important (which does make sense - justifiable as you said, but wanting to avoid hurting the ones he loves is also good, and if he stops Meteor he has all the time he needs to sort the situation out)

Haha! Amused that Deling is specifically included. And yeah, absurdly large and horribly easy to get lost in...

...this is once again an example of where I need to go replay FFVII (the reference videos I've been using decided to put Cait Sith into the active party for the Temple so that Cait Sith "over-hearing" makes a little more sense (but the game then insists on you trying to leave with Cait and then leaving him behind. And interestingly does avoid Tifa being present for Aeris asking for the prediction); I had forgotten/never noticed that you would have more characters present in the scene (and that makes sense they'd be keeping a look-out for other Turks, since Elena is kind of around (and Compilation-wise Tseng has dragged himself/been carried away from the Temple before the implosion (and likely before Cloud and co. exitted)).

Oh, I like the idea of Tifa on Barret watch like that; that feels right as he is going to be amazingly twitchy about Marlene at that point, and yes, definitely with Tifa's interpretation of the date, she'd feel like she needed to give Cloud and Aeris some space... (and yeah, Aeris prediction request is a little tactless right in front of Tifa like that (I'm sure some are interpreting this as she was hoping that Cait would declare them incompatible so Aeris could turn to Tifa and ask if she would be the better match for Cloud. Then again, I wonder how much stock any of them would put in his predictions...))

I think then Nanaki is an excellent choice; him comforting her awkwardly feels right, and there's an odd friendship between them with them both recogninsing their similarities as the last of their respective races.

Ah, I will try and point out if anything does deviate from canon; and yeah that makes sense - canon-splice up to the Forgotten City, and then into AU. The whole canon deviation was faulty memory/too long since I played VII...

Heh - yeah, Cait does have an odd quirk to his speech... And I'm terrible at distinguishing between Irish and Scottish in circumstances, so I think my accents are worse. I know I thought that Cait sounded Scottish in the AC dub/Dirge, but I might have been wrong. Definitely agree with Cait Sith/Reeve being one of the more rational party members - and I love that description of the "Cait Cave" for Reeve's interface with the robot.

So very true about the game handling Cloud's weirdness; he is forgiven/trusted as leader in a capacity that feels unlikely given some moments (especially the Temple and the Forgotten City) (though as you say, it is quite endearing that they accept him as leader regardless). Calling him more into question does sound right, and admitting he can hear something from Sephiroth would likely give everyone serious pause.

I think even the original creatives were a bit stuck on how to handle the aftermath of the Temple, which is why the game avoids it and has the dream sequence instead. I can definitely see Aeris making out that Cloud isn't at fault and needing support. Interesting notion about the group pushing and punishing themselves like that, and rather then step in they let Cloud keep going. I feel I know what you mean, but can't articulate it either).

Oh a related note, I remembered to google polyamory to see its usefulness as reference. Interesting to read all the different relationship configurations (Cloud/Aeris/Tifa is a "triad relationship" from what I found), and notes like communication is one of *the* essential components in a polyamorous relationship (I was thinking that's true for all relationships, but I can see being absolutely level with the other partners being essential for things to work). Real-world examples are unfortunately slightly vague when I've found them about how the subject was first broached/they were sure their partner was on the same page... And it should have gone without saying that an example like 'The Sky...' (three friends from childhood are so close but never quite understand how close they've gotten until a tipping point) is incredibly rare, if ever likely in real life - and also the situation in 'Sleeping Arrangements' were the three of them mostly come together at the same time. Most of the real world examples seem to have existing couples adding additional partners to the situation...

[raaj]

I could see that kind of confusion, but would expect that to only happen in a small section of the Japanese fanbase--any Western fan deliberately searched BC out, and most very likely because they already knew the series, and if they didn't probably gleaned quite a bit in their search.

I was about to say that I wasn't sure if tradition was pressed that much on Cloud given the oft-questioned nature of his family situation (and how popular the fanon of him being out-of-wedlock is), and then I remember Mama Strife was worrying over him facing the temptations of the city and encouraging him to hurry up and settle down with a girl who'd take care of him. So...yeah, actually, I can see him having thought at one point that people should wait until marriage, and even if he might not judge others for not waiting he's probably thinking "make the commitment, THEN..."

(Though I still laugh at humorous comments from Clouds in rp/fic thinking ironically that he had been such a loner as a kid who seemed like he would never date, his mom probably would have started "pimping him out" and taking a much more...involved role in him finding a girl to settle down with if that situation had continued much longer...)

Oh I think the talk is still going to be petrifying when it actually happens XD but Cloud voicing it like that would probably give encouragement that he might be open to this idea of a threesome. If he does love her, and not just Tifa. (I feel somewhat bad for Aerith--or whoever lays it out, but so far it's looking to be Aerith--as even though she's fairly bold just confessing to one person can be difficult; confessing to two people at once, and that you hope they love each other too/are ok with the thought of sharing/okay with two of the people involved being bi, seems absolutely petrifying. I imagine she's trying to scope some of this out beforehand and taking parts of it on faith from what she's seen of Tifa and Cloud throughout their journey and would be absolutely disappointed in them if she'd read wrong on some accounts (like if Cloud reacted badly to the idea of her loving Tifa), but still. Yeowza.) So far I like to think that when Aerith actually does lay it out, she is nervous and tells them flat-out that they are not to interrupt her until she's done because she is only saying this once!!! ...Okay she will say she loves them plenty more times if this goes at all well.

(Hojo stop being so narrow-minded! ...er maybe that's worse, I imagine him being slightly pleased she's at least fixing on the one successful clone... Hojo just needs to go away. He's creepy.)

I think I just like the idea that Cloud's reflex to Aerith bounding over to him (oh yes her affection can be enthusiastic when she wants) is to catch her/put his arms around her, even as he's going mentally keysmashing at the kiss itself. I am a fluff person. Give me fluff.

oh lol, Cait Sith 'overhearing' by the PHS always is a funny thing (which makes me think Reeve had Cait Sith mess with Cloud's PHS or maybe all of them to catch what everyone's saying... Yeah I really wouldn't put that past Reeve. Cait Sith can be very stealthy...in one way...!)

(I'm sure some are interpreting this as she was hoping that Cait would declare them incompatible so Aeris could turn to Tifa and ask if she would be the better match for Cloud. Then again, I wonder how much stock any of them would put in his predictions...)

...I'm. Pretty sure most Clotis just don't put stock into Cait Sith's predictions. But then there are all sorts of interpretations in FFVII fandom (on that note. I remember us talking once about some people blaming Tifa for not speaking up when Cloud was blamed for her accident. Guess what popped up tonight!) soooo I'm sure there's at least one person hoping Aerith's hoping to hear "Sorry Aerith, that star's going toooo...Tifa!" or even "Hmmm, how should I say this...ever thought about your compatibility with Tifa, Aerith?"

Ah, no worries, my memory goes faulty on stuff too sometimes. It's a bit silly as in the end it's just fanfic anyway, but I really do want to keep this canon up until that point to make it feel more strongly like maybe it could have gone that way, if Aerith had lived.

Cait Sith sounds scottish to me too, yeah. But it is an odd accent and a bit overdone.

Even though it's tricky because it really seems to a detached, omniscient third party perspective "please have someone else be party leader until Cloud has his head together", I think... there are also ways to have justified it. Going from how he's trusted other party members when they seemed suspicious so they want to repay that trust (Barret in Corel Prison especially comes to mind) to--for the purposes of the fic, since there's only the one incident (Cloud does not nearly kill Aerith at the City) it could be as simple as them being pressed for time from Gongaga--as soon as Cloud wakes up they know they need to find Aerith now, they can sort what's going on with Cloud once they find her since it's not like just leaving Cloud behind is at all an option any of the group would really want, except things get thrown into confusion again with Tifa nearly dying. (Kind of want to play with that too--the idea that at least some of the group would not see leaving Cloud behind as an option at all.)

...There were other things that came to mind too, except then they popped back out again. e_e my brain is being a sieve.


Yeah, thinking about the difficulty of the confession as above, I can see how the most common would be existing couples adding another partner...I think that was my experience too when I was searching around. And yes, definitely communication being important (..............which means definitely not going the CoT way on this 8|)

[sanctum_c]

...true, that point about BC might have been clutching at straws somewhat. (so who *were* these people painting Avalanche as the villains in VII, or at least claiming they were over-reacting/should have moved?)

Two good points at the same time there! Hehe. Yeah, on the one hand, Cloud's worry of traditionalism does seem a bit out of place given the questionable nature of his family (and it feels a fairly good reason why he would have been excluded back in Nibelheim) - unless he took it the other way and wanted to avoid giving rise to the situation again rather then seeing the pain that mandating that kind of traditional family could do in a community... And then yeah on the other hand, Mama Strife is really keen on an older mother-y girlfriend for him (it is actually curious that I've seen that given as Cloud/Aeris evidence before now. Which... um, well Mama Strife might have Cloud's best interests at heart, but he's not necessarily go in for that. The other-side to that is that while she isn't older then him, one anti-Cloud/Tifa argument revolves around Tifa's maternal side/her attitude to Cloud, and that's the reason she can't be with him. I don't buy into either of these arguments - the former is something I can easily see a parent telling their child in Cloud's position (Mama Strife concerned for her son), and in the latter... Um, that's just kinda weird).

Though! I am kind of amused that estimation of Cloud wanting to make a commitment before getting intimate sounds plasuible; he has no trouble with anyone else's stance, but that's his (...and one I fully expect to change rather rapidly once he's more aware of how the girls feel about him/they start kissing more often)

Haha! That's a great thoguht about Mama Strife pimping him out/taking a more involved role in finding him a girl to settle down with. And mortifying for poor Cloud as well...

There was no way I could see the three of them sitting down to talk as not being petrifying (unless the characters were switched out with extroverts with several past polyamorous relationships... and even then I can see it being nerve-wracking if you're not absolutely certain the other two are going to take to the idea). I really agree with Aeris taking the lead in bringing the subject up/being the first one to confess - just confessing to someone is nerve-wracking at the best of times, but to confess to two, and at the same time admit you're bi to someone who you're pretty sure is also bi, but there is this horrible possibility that no, they're so very hetero... Completely agree she's going to try and scope this out as much as possible before-hand/review every moment she's had with both of them mentally beforehand to try and convince herself that she isn't imagining it...

I like the idea of her laying it all out, and nervously asking them to not interrupt (I can see her being afraid if she gets interrupted it'll be too soon/if she pauses she won't be able to continue). And liking the idea of her saying she loves them a whole lot more afterward. Curious; is she just going to admit her own feelings and then hope the other two chime in, or is she going to set out the situation as she sees it; that she truly loves both Cloud and Tifa, she knows Tifa loves Cloud and she's reasonably sure that Tifa also loves her, also knows that Cloud has been crushing on Tifa since childhood and Aeris thinks/really hopes that Cloud loves her as well?

Fluff! Fluff is *wonderful*. And many other styles, but there is something to be said for warm fuzziness when everything goes right for the pairing/OT3. And Cloud's reflex/mental keyboard mashing as she kisses him sounds just right (that curious moment where his brain goes slightly out of step with "wow she's kissing me" and "wait she just kissed Tifa...")

Ah - that would make sense with Cait having tampered with the PHS like that. Or actually, given how likely the cellphone system is under Shinra control, possibly he can just patch himself into their calls directly (and activate the microphone at will...)

I didn't use to put any stock in Cait Sith's predictions... But then you told me that head-canon about Reeve thinking Cait was broken as every prediction was "North" (where is Sephiroth/where is Aeris), so I'm kind of split. But yes, so many interpretations (and ack for people blaming Tifa for that again - the unconcious for seven days bit does seem easily forgotten/overlooked). But yeah, I can see people hoping for Cait's prediction to come out a tad differently (I confess now to having warped that moment for 'A Series of Moments' again for Aeris/Tifa...) (though I like that phrasing from Cait)

Well, maybe slightly silly, but I know what you mean about adhereing to canon at least until the diverge point - and I really tried to do that too (with a few tweaks/canon-splices for the most part to shift things a little). So not to worry, I very much understand the desire to stick as closely as possible. And that will make it seem much more like an alternate possibility if you do stick to canon as much as possible. So I will continue to flag up anything that looks/feels like it might be deviated/go cross check with the script as well.

That's kind of a nice one, the group repaying Cloud with trust like that as he's trusted them in the past, despite suspicions. And yeah, I can see there simply being no time at Gongaga - they need to find Aeris right now before Sephiroth does...

Ack - I know the brain sieve feeling...

Haha! I would advise ignoring CoT altogether for any part of the relationship! But yes, to work they so desperately need to communicate... Though... even though a couple adding an additional partner like that, it still feels it would be so difficult to broach that subject, even if the couple were incredibly open with each other. Unless somehow one already knew the other felt like that and from that realised they were curious enough to try. But I can see the nerves of just bring the subject up and potentially risking things by broaching the subject (it feels so pessimistic but I can see someone's bad reaction to hearing their partner felt like that far too easily).

[raaj]

I think Mama Strife would approve of both Aerith and Tifa as slightly mother-y--but yeah, that doesn't mean Cloud has to do as she says, or that he's attracted to them for that side!

Yeah, I imagine Aerith's confession is both planned so, so much--but it's also prompted by the night to find their reason for fighting, it might be the last night they have (though I think she also has more faith that Holy will come through...but erm they still have to defeat Sephiroth, and she knows how deadly he can be). I am leaning toward the latter, but at the same time I'm also wibbling a bit on how much she's picked up that Tifa loves her/if she might still be worried she's reading too much into that even after the kiss (so while she lays out that they love each other, to make it clear she indeed loves both of them and is glad they love each other, she's really hoping that yes, they chime in on their feelings for her and want to be with her as well).

(that curious moment where his brain goes slightly out of step with "wow she's kissing me" and "wait she just kissed Tifa...")

and two plus two equals five. haha but yeah, he and Tifa are both going to be like "wow, what happened there? it was nice but.../CONFUSED" Aerith's fault for being so impulsive.

I didn't use to put any stock in Cait Sith's predictions... But then you told me that head-canon about Reeve thinking Cait was broken as every prediction was "North" (where is Sephiroth/where is Aeris), so I'm kind of split.

Haha I'm actually very tempted to use some of the Reeve/Cait Sith headcanon in this ficverse (either about Reeve finally realizing Cait's correct--or Reeve trying to approach either Cloud or Tifa about Cloud's completely buried files). But yeah, it's really the only the way I can reconcile the compilation going "he can find anything!" and at the same time, for a later timepoint in canon, "lol some of these predictions may have been made up." That the predictions at some point became so odd for Reeve that he was forced to just toss them out, not realizing that they really WERE right. (And that comment made me curious just now to make me go back and reread the temple...I was thinking for a moment you meant Aerith had asked her compatibility with Cloud, for Cait Sith to say something else. But ah, it's that she asked about the compatibility with Tifa--which makes sense for the fic!)

Yeah, I think the trust for Cloud would work for at least Barret, and that Aerith's insistence on trusting him would allay some team members (Yuffie having her crush on him and starting to like the party probably really wants to trust Aerith on this, so yeah...her and Nanaki...), Vincent can sympathize with Cloud on not having complete control, so. The big question marks are Cait Sith/Reeve and Cid...

(This is kind of terrible given the more positive turn the AU's taken, but at one point an idea for "the one who didn't die" AU was that Aerith had a sinking feeling she couldn't dissuade Cloud from continuing to the North Crater but he had to be stopped from coming into contact with Sephiroth again... so she approaches Cait Sith, who is also doubtful about Cloud, and they find a way to separate Cloud from the group. ...It involves the Turks. It was just oh Aerith even if this is supposed to be for his own good IT REALLY SUCKS, the poor guy, especially as... The "bad end" route was going to be that the group manages not only to reclaim the Black Materia and keep it without Cloud, but also destroys Sephiroth's body, with Vincent killing Hojo, all up at the North Crater. OK, this sounds all good so far... the bad part is that with Sephiroth's body destroyed, he makes the same final attack he does as in canon--attacking Cloud in a battle of wills. ...Cloud having not had his identity restored, and believing Aerith and others in the party don't trust him, has his mind completely broken and is taken over by Sephiroth's undivided will. Cue several grisly deaths and good job breaking the guy you love, Aerith. /_\ Ditched because I wasn't sure about Aerith or Reeve doing that, even if they believe at the time they're doing what's best for everyone, that's a rather old idea now, but just. Yeah. I've always seen it as easy for Reeve to be reasonably skeptical of what's going on with Cloud.)

This pretty much sums up to the usual: "I need to write more"! To figure out what is going on with Reeve/Cait Sith and Cid here...though I suppose if it gets too knotty I can always follow canon's route and just...gloss over it. (Well, and if it's just Cait Sith and Cid there's also the chance that they DO object to someone, the others shoot them down, and they're just like "gdit you guys are wrong but okay, let's go stop Sephiroth" since the majority is in Cloud's favor.)

Oh, I don't think that fear of bad reaction is pessimistic. But there's all types of people and there's a chance the couple themselves met/developed in a way that they're aware neither one subscribes to traditional relationships, which would make raising the issue easier.

[sanctum_c]

...you realise that now, I really want to see Mama Strife in an AU meeting both Tifa and Aeris and quizzing them about themselves and how they feel about Cloud, all the while Cloud is sat there feeling uncomfortable and embarassed and eventually leaves... Then Mama Strife drops the act and just talks amiably to the two girls and ultimately confesses she could never choose between them and they should both go for Cloud (having picked up an unspoken attraction between the two girls as well) (I like to think Mama Strife is pretty cool all things considered). Which... is likely AU fluff of the highest order - and trickier to arrange without a lot of canon breaks, but is so tempting...

Ah, I can see Aeris being prompted by the last night - and having a lot of faith that Holy is going to get them out of their doomed situation, and her having gone over and over and over what she's going to say (and with a whole set of back-up plans if she's misread the situation; if Holy fails she's only got one day of embarassment left, and if it does work she'll move to Wutai and take up Zen gardening or something (... I'm not totally sure where that one was going)). I like the idea of her laying out that they do love each other, and she loves both of them - really hoping, and pretty sure they'll chime in as she expects (I think she might confess her feelings first or else the two of them might think she's trying to set them up with just each other then the three of them together).

But, oh, where would they be without Aeris' impulsiveness? I do like the thought that both Cloud and Tifa are still getting their head around their respective kisses when she offers to kiss Cid and that's just confusing the situation so much/both of them are wondering how best to take her to one side and getting their specific feelings towards her off their chests - maybe figuring she seems to like them that much, while they have this desire for the other person they do realise how much they love her.

Heh - that head-canon would be nice to read in the fic, and I do like that reconciling of the Compilation like that (which given the way its written it is pretty weird that Cait was once that accurate... but then not in the original). It does seem that there is a fixation on the third Gold Saucer prediction and the Temple one for VII (and everyone forgetting the first two less then coherent ones/Cait Sith never making another prediction as far as I remember). Heh; yeah I did ponder sticking to canon with the prediction at the Temple, but that really felt an odd move on Aeris' part so that one had to give.

Interestingly, I think you have made a previous suggestion which might help with the party and trusting Cloud - you had the head-canon that possibly the other party members were out looking for Aeris when Cloud comes to in Gongaga, so while Barret and Tifa would trust Cloud, and a large number of the others, the others don't necessarily have to be there when he does come to, and they can be called to converge on the Forgotten City/arrive just in time for Tifa's injury or just before. Hmm... not sure...

No idea is terrible! And darkfic is still interesting to discuss, and possibly useful to know precisely where things will wind up if it all goes wrong... I'd agree that I can see Reeve being reasonably skeptical of Cloud like that...And both of those ideas are really interesting as an alternate ending, and while the outcome will be unpleasant, I do like that idea of Cloud having that final battle in his mind, but since his mind hasn't been repaired at Mideel he loses... If nothing else as above they serve as a this is what would happen if it isn't prevented, so you know more why the specifics of why they need to act as they're going to...

Haha - its sort of bad that you could take the canon route and gloss over things, but it is in keeping. Hoepfully you'll figure something out there (kinda brain-dead here at the mometn sorry).

Ah, yes, I can see the polyamory discussion being a lot easier if they did meet knowing neither was entirely into traditional relationships. And oh, I think I confused that point a bit before; I meant I felt pessimistic for thinking it - that the aftermath of a confession like that could be really bad if they don't feel similarly. I can imagine even people who are pretty sure they know they partner really well still get nervous broaching the subject the first time...

(but its far more fun to think of the Cloud/Tifa/Aeris scenario you're building)

[raaj]

I vote that should go in the AU where Aerith grows up with Cloud and Tifa in Nibelheim (since it's pretty bound to break canon anyway!) But yes, the thought of Mama Strife being accepting as long as it makes her baby boy happy is a nice one. Also lmfao at Cloud getting all embarrassed and walking out only to realize "oh god the three most important women in my life will all be able to get together to mortify me from now on. asdfkl."

(and with a whole set of back-up plans if she's misread the situation; if Holy fails she's only got one day of embarassment left, and if it does work she'll move to Wutai and take up Zen gardening or something (... I'm not totally sure where that one was going))

Last night I was idly thinking of either Cloud or Tifa, totally flustered and blindsided, kind of stalling and asking her what she's even thinking, how this would work and what would she have done if they'd told her this was nuts because it's sounding like that? To which she is bluntly frank and says she would be heartbroken and cry a lot but try to find a new dream but she really, really hopes they're not going to say that. The reaction is kind of 'oh please no you crying would be the worst thing, don't.' "Then consider it seriously, all right? I really do want this to work!" Not really sure where that thought was going either...haha, I don't think I'll know exactly how that scene unfolds until it's actually written out. Though I am planning that she starts by telling them she wants her future to be with both of them-- because yes for making it clear this is about the three of them, not Cloud and Tifa alone. (That said I can still easily see Cloud and Tifa getting confused about what she's trying to do given everything, and depending on what kind of tack she takes...)

And that is an interesting thought about one of them trying to take her aside beforehand--I'd been considering Cloud, being antsy about the whole thing now that he realizes, is probably causing his own wrinkles in the situation: either being nervous around the girls enough that they realize something is different, and/or trying to "solve" it somehow (which is a curious thought for him trying to take Aerith aside afterward and muddle through his thoughts to her--or even taking Tifa aside and asking her if she...well...liked kissing Aerith (because if she loves Aerith maybe he doesn't have to reject either)...and Tifa is just like "where did this question even come from and what in the world is he thinking???". ...Reminds me of when in the Zack/Cloud/Aerith rp, before they actually all figured out the ot3, both guys managed to ask Aerith if she loved the other. She was like "Ummmmmm. ...Wow, am I about to screw up our relationship being honest?" Seriously, awkward question ahoy.) Though Tifa and Cloud both wanting to take Aerith aside, but getting frustrated by little worries/bad timings/annoying teammates, is pretty cute.

Yeah, the order compilation was written in makes that seriously weird. And I'm sure with the LTD they didn't want to just go and say "Oh all his predictions were accurate!" though they could have (even if the first two are...odd. there's nothing necessarily wrong about them.) So it's just a weird situation in general.

Hm. While I wanted to keep the idea of party members looking for Aerith, I'm not sure I wanted everyone to end up so far apart. I'd have to think about it; I'm going back at the moment and trying to fill in the earlier Gongaga scene with Tifa and Aerith (it's...an odd start so far. Not sure I'm taking the right approach at all, but I'll muddle a bit further before cutting things...)

That is true, even if bad endings are too dark they help figure out why Aerith (and other characters) should, would, or wouldn't do certain things. And ooh yes, that's true; even with a nontraditional background, shaking up a relationship could easily feel uncomfortable.

[sanctum_c]

Oh, I'm going to have to start figuring that AU out now (though I'd really want to start with Mama Strife (and for ease of reference, I will probably use Dala as a reference to Scribbler. Especially as I want her to be very personable once they've scared Cloud out of the house and insist they call her by her first name. And other Mama Strife first names are thin on the ground) sitting down with the three of them to discuss the situation and then fill in the back-story after that); as that little group is far too much fun (I see this as being so *amazingly fluffy* Tifa's mother is still alive, Papa Strife is missing, but Gast and Ifalna live in the town as well... That or it can start nice enough and then Zack and Sephiroth show up on cue...)

Those are adorable responses from Aeris about what she would do if the other two had told her she's nuts (though from that phrasing, the back of her mind would be clinging onto "That's not a no. That's really not a no. That's a what if; not only a what if, but the one *other* then how she does feel"), and yeah both of them reddened and flustered. Looking forward to it when it does get written though; and I do like the opening about making it clear it's about all three of them - though even then I can see Tifa maybe with a sinking heart thinking that she's trying to withdraw as she can't possibly be confessing to her and Cloud... right? And Cloud is sort of regretful, sort of thankful that he never had to choose between them...

Ah, I like that idea of one of them taking the other to one side first like that; in fact I think I like the one where he tries to figure out if Tifa loves Aeris the most there... though the other with him taking Aeris to one side is so tempting. Or if possible both, and then Aeris declares they need to sit down, *right now* and get this situation cleared up. Hahah! Oh what a situation in that RP; being able to screw up the relationship by being honest... At least I remember that one did eventually resolve happily.

Hehe - yeah Cait Sith's first two predictions aren't necessarily wrong... we just have no idea what they mean (plus if Cait Sith did use to be prophetic, it would have been nice if he'd predicted Meteor or Sephiroth... Though I suppose it depends on how it works; can he jsut give specific answers to specific questions?)

Heh - given my preference for keeping Avalanche together as a group, I'm not totally in favour of having them so far apart - though it does offer a way to avoid a wrinkle with the party leadership... Intrigued as to how the Gongaga section is going to go...

[raaj]

Speaking of Scribbler's fic--"Triangle" updated! And it really is about Cissnei and Aerith this update. For the Aerith in Nibelheim I can see Mama Lockhart still dying for the mountain incident to occur and there being that wrinkle between the children before they finally figure things out (...hm. especially if perhaps the Faremis family moves in after it's happened, so Aerith has no clue about how Cloud was beforehand/anything possibly happened). But they do get that sorted out, and things are nice enough, and then...yeah, maybe Shinra arrives as Zack and Sephiroth...! (...I'm bad at doing only fluff, I suppose. XD)

Oh yes, Aerith is very much telling herself it's not a rejection until they flat out say "no way". If they seem at all hesitant she's still got her foot in the door...! And yeah I can see even as she's talking about all three of them having a future together Cloud and Tifa start thinking she's talking about 'as friends' since she's also talked about how perfectly they worked together in the Lifestream, and she loves how Tifa is this and this and this, and she loves Cloud's such and such qualities and they're still thinking "she's friendzoning herself and we're not sure how we feel but we should be happy she thinks we make a good couple, right?" and then she's like "whew... ...okay, I know I said not to interrupt, but you guys are taking this better than I expected. Were threesomes a thing in Nibelheim?" "What?!" "What do you mean, what?!" "(mentally reviewing the part where she was going "I love this and this about Tifa and blahblahblah about Cloud" and) ...Aerith, we thought you were saying something different the whole time." "...Um. So now that you know what I'm saying, you're not going to actually... freak out, right?"

...So, when it comes time to actually write this, I'll have to sit on my hands a few times to keep the dialogue from turning absolutely silly just because.

Haha I kind love the Cloud taking Tifa aside one most too, just for the inherent absolute awkward of it. And yes, the rp did work out well for everyone. :)

To be honest, of the Cait Sith predictions I always did love that one of the seemingly frivolous ones includes "Be careful of forgetfulness." CLOUD YOU NEEDED TO TAKE THAT ONE TO HEART.

I'd say...BC kind of plays it as both "specific answers to specific questions" and general feelings; for example, Reeve is aware the Turks were likely to need his help and attributes it to the fortune-telling, but doesn't know what they need him for. And then he can tell a specific thing like "is it down this path y/n". So he wouldn't have predicted Meteor or Sephiroth, but he might have had a general ominous feeling...? (Which he probably put down to "my company is crazy and willing to destroy 1/8 of the city to take care of some rebels and we control the world, no wonder it feels like the world's going to end. It'll probably be because of Shinra." ...Cue a few weeks down the road and he's got his head in his hands because why, whyyyyy, he wasn't even meaning to tell the future that time)

Actually I should have noted even in both versions I've done of the temple aftermath I've been having Cait Sith be skeptical of Cloud:

First version (Aerith fails to mention Sephiroth) -

His fault? No, with what Aerith was saying it was definitely still his doing, setting a sinking weight in Tifa's heart. What was this talk about nightmares for? He'd been wide awake. All it sounded like was Aerith inexplicably trying to take responsibility for getting hurt, and Cait Sith spoke the uncomfortable thought out loud: "Lass, ye can't blame yerself for--"

"You don't blame him!" It was nearly incoherent, thoroughly petulant, and tears were already showing. Any doubts Tifa had of a concussion vanished and she tried to shush her friend, who kept shouting: "You didn't hear screaming? He was screaming. Didn't you hear it? He didn't--didn't want--"

"Aerith, I'm going to heal you," Tifa told her. "Just calm down, okay? We'll work it out."

She wished she could believe herself, but it was obvious Aerith had been rattled hard by the hit...and who had delivered it. She even couldn't--or maybe didn't want to--resist the calming effect of the Restore: as soon as the spell was cast, she slumped bonelessly against Tifa's shoulder. Tifa rummaged for a handkerchief to mop up the blood, pulling back the other woman's hair to check that the bleeding there was stopped.

Second version -

"A nightmare," came the slow answer, slurred past the broken nose, the "v"s and "t"s thick. "Never knew there were such bad nightmares...ah. Sephiroth took the black materia."

"Sephiroth came back?!"

"...Took it from Cloud?" Cait Sith asked shrewdly. Aerith's head jerked up and Tifa bit out a frustrated "Cait!" Aerith was so vulnerable right now, so was Cloud; they didn't need to be questioned.

Who was she protecting more?

Aerith herself seemed set on defending Cloud as she kept her head tilted up toward the robot. "Cait, please. I know you...had to sacrifice yourself..." Her brows knit together, as if she couldn't reconcile what she was saying with who she was talking to.

"I'm the replacement, miss," Cait Sith explained, and his face had softened as much as a robot's could; he seemed about to say more, but Aerith was persisting over him:

"Please don't blame Cloud. He was screaming, in so much pain. The Planet's screaming now too."

...Aaaand both versions have me playing with Aerith hearing the "real" Cloud's struggle in his out-of-body experience, and the first one with how concussions can cause irritability and other mood issues (also it was just very tempting to have her eventually yell at someone "are you deaf?" for something only she can hear, even if I removed that specific phasing later. I AM AMUSED IN TRIVIAL WAYS.)

...So I'm pretty sure at this rate Cait's going to be kept as a skeptical figure, not because he dislikes Cloud but just, you know. It doesn't seem right. He might try talking to Tifa about the files but get shut out as a traitor/he just wants to make her doubt Cloud (...which Sephiroth will do in the future, and back at Shinra HQ Reeve's just probably going to rub his temples and wish his cover hadn't been blown because the dismissal is understandable in that light but no, something about this really is wrong, even if Aerith's right about not blaming Cloud--especially if she is, as it indicates he's not in complete control of himself). And then at the altar it's a split-second decision Tifa makes: she wants to see Aerith too, and she wants to protect Cloud and believe in him but she wants Aerith safe too and she's known all along something might not be right with Cloud, maybe there's something to the missing files Cait Sith mentioned, so she'll just go ahead of him and...make sure there's not another 'nightmare'. So she touches Cloud's arm and indicates she wants to go up first--he lets her--aaaand then Sephiroth comes swooping down.

I think my issue with the Gongaga section is I feel so shaky writing about Tifa's side of what she knows. Like, right now there's a moment where she's like "Aerith is upset, and Cloud you should just come out and say that since you're thinking it, don't beat around the bush--but don't ask her about Zack. Please don't ask about Zack." And it's like auuugh Tifa that's terrible. Hopefully understandable in the context of the whole dilemma, but still...

[sanctum_c]

Oh neat about 'Triangle' being updated (thanks for letting me know), and that sounds like it should be interesting (just need to finish off 'But that Was in...' first. Or at least read as much of it as there was. On reflection the underground bunker they hide in at first feels a bit weird as there are supposed to be other survivors there, only three deaths are mentioned, but it really feels as if its only Avalanche down there. Not that I mind, it does just feel a little odd that the other survivors were specified if never really depicted).

Ah, I like that idea of having Aeris and family move in after the mountain incident like that; actually that would then be a good point to diverge off canon thinking about it - so rather then Cloud stewing alone and getting fixated on Sephiroth he meets Aeris who calms him down, and once Tifa is up and about again is able to get them talking to each other/get the mess cleared up... so Cloud no longer runs away. And all is great, Mama Strife has her meeting with both girls a few years later... Actually kinda torn on the Shinra arrival part; it would allow for the game plot to start creeping in/hint at the game-plot depending on how long the idea winds up being - but at the same time, I kind of want the trio to be a few years older... Hmm... Well, I have other fics to worry about first so that can go on the back-burner for now (need to finish fixing '48 Exposures' and resume 'The Fire Dancer'), but I know I'm going to wind up thinking about this one/possibly just write the meeting with Mama Strife at least...

...while I can see sitting on your hands to keep the dialogue from being absolutely silly, I really did like the misunderstanding there/how well Aeris thinks it's going/versus how Tifa is perceiving the situation - and I can see how they could interpret her comments about what she loves about both of them as a preamble to something like, "And I think you both feel the same way about each other" and as you said friendzoning herself pretty amazingly. And I really do like that she thinks this has gone amazingly well all things considered and says the bit about the threesome. It is silly, but pretty adorable. Tonally it might seem slightly off with the rest of the fic sadly, but still neat to read.

I do like how you're setting the three of them up to basically assume that the other two are going to be a couple for most of the fic and that they will start trying to figure out if they should step back and let the others be happy - except for Aeris who's decided that she doesn't want to choose. And I can see Cloud being extremely flustered/awkward as he tip-toes(/stumbles heavily) around the subject of Tifa and Aeris as a couple...

Haha! Oh, I'd forgotten about that prediction. Yeah, Cloud really needed to keep hold of that one.

Ah, that does make sense for Cait Sith/Reeve's prophetic ability - and I can't help but smile once again at the prophetic ability being entirely correct in a way he never expected - and him sitting with his head in his hands frustrated that he knew something was wrong but had thought it was just Shinra being crazy... (...there does seem to be a lot of scope for darkly comic Reeve/Cait Sith stuff where his prophecy is frequently accurate, just never clear enough/soon enough to be helpful.

Torn on both of those versions of the scene; I know you were worried about Aeris not mentioning Sephiroth, but the first version I think justifies that lack of mention since Aeris doesn't realise yet she's the only one to have heard what she did; and her reaction to the concussion feels right with her addled thoughts/she's far more worried about Cloud's perception after this then trying to explain the situation. The second one emphasises Cait's suspicion more/has a nice moment of confusion about the nature of Cait Sith/the person operating it, but also that he can sympathise with her.

Cait as a skeptical figure sounds good like that, and I can see him trying to bring up the the lack of files on Cloud, and she doesn't want to hear it (and yeah, Reeve is really going to regret his cover being blown like that, as they really do need to know this stuff if Aeris is right)... and I like that way the altar scene will change; Tifa worried about another nightmare and going up ahead of Cloud...

Hmm... I can see that being an issue with that portion of Gongaga. That is indeed not great what Tifa's thinking, but I would say understandable in context (or at least I can see why she would really hope he doesn't ask her directly like that). This really is one of those moments in FFVII where some of the character's attitudes admissions or omissions are a little hard to get into the mindset of, so I can see it being tricky to get to sound right...

[raaj]

That's very true, the other survivors are so inconsequential (especially as the fic doesn't give a very optimistic view of them continuing long-term) that it's a bit surprising they're even there.

Yeah, now when I think of the AU Nibelheim myself I keep...trying to add more Shinra plot in (kind of a "wait, if Nibelheim is quietly a big deal for Shinra, isn't that the WORST place for Gast and his family to go to?" with my mind quietly trying to add in a reasoning for why Gast moved there... It's tempting now to have Cloud starting to stew, get in that phase that he idolizes Sephiroth--and then the first time he mentions it to the new girl, thinking of everyone in town she's least likely to laugh at him, she shoots it down as it being stupid to admire Sephiroth, he should just be himself. And Cloud's rather put off by this at first but she's otherwise friendly, so gradually they get to be friends, and he resolves things with Tifa... and it's years later that he realizes Aerith knows Sephiroth personally, and Sephiroth is the reason the Faremis family is not just alive but in Nibelheim: the company is keeping tabs on Gast but keeping him alive after MAJOR shit hit the fan when their child-soldier-in-training found out Hojo's plans for Gast and his family. ...Hojo is definitely not alive in this train of thought. Now that Sephiroth has been shipped out to Wutai, Gast is no longer useful to Shinra as a scientist but they know if they eliminate him they're going to risk Sephiroth's wrath and ahaha that was bad enough when he was seven. So Aerith is grateful for Sephiroth's actions considering the possible (canon) alternative course, and she feels sorry for him, but she also considers the whole fact that her family's lives have hinged on keeping him placated terrifying for what it says about Sephiroth's abilities and Shinra's nature and she's just "NOPE DON'T WANT ANY CUTE NEW FRIENDS ANYWHERE NEAR THAT".) Probably much too knotty for what you want to do. I just. My mindset is continually one of "but why is it like that?" with so many things. For a cute fic it'd be soooo much easier to have Hojo die some other way and Shinra's attentions just shift elsewhere. But I'm definitely looking forward to "48 Exposures" and "The Fire Dancer"!

I do like how you're setting the three of them up to basically assume that the other two are going to be a couple for most of the fic and that they will start trying to figure out if they should step back and let the others be happy - except for Aeris who's decided that she doesn't want to choose. And I can see Cloud being extremely flustered/awkward as he tip-toes(/stumbles heavily) around the subject of Tifa and Aeris as a couple...

Haha, I like this viewpoint of it too. Though I can't promise it's set in stone--well, Aerith and Tifa both see how the other two work as a couple, yeah. Still trying to figure out when it really clicks for Aerith "wow that is not entirely friendly love for Tifa there, is it?" And then Cloud is stumbling like a drunk around the whole thing, yes. What is love? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more ♫ I keep returning to, in the Cloud-Aerith aspect, him worrying that it's because he was acting like Zack--or just for both of them worrying he'd screw up and hurt them in a relationship somehow (Clooouuuud). Though it probably depends on how I want to play off him getting himself back together--he could just simply decide to trust Aerith when she says yes, she loves him, as himself. And doubts can always creep in during the next part (if there is the third part, I really need to finish the first part first, haha).

I think the dark comedy--or that mix of irony against everything serious--is what really appeals to me about seeing a Reeve OG-timeline fic. Hopefully lighter bits of humor too, but it really is interesting to think about Reeve's perspective on things...

...I'm torn on both versions myself. The reason I initially didn't like the first version was because I was having trouble transitioning with everyone figuring out what to do about Cloud, but then yesterday I realized I could just cut to Gongaga after Aerith drops off against Tifa's shoulder and show Tifa going back between a sometimes-conscious Aerith and totally-checked-out-from-reality Cloud while explaining a bit what's up with each of them, and then when she's exhausted she curls up next to Aerith to sleep...waking up a bit when Aerith unexpectedly gets up from bed, but Aerith reassures her she's fine and will take care of things now, so Tifa doesn't have to worry, go back to sleep silly... (cue Cid cursing in the Gongaga jungle a few hours later over where the hell that dang flower girl could have gone off to). From there another bit with Cloud, maybe the scene with Cait Sith mixed in, and then the City of Ancients. ...And...actually I think it MIGHT have just come together in my head how both Cait Sith and Cloud's scenes can play off each other to reinforce Tifa's belief that she can't tell Cloud about what she remembers of Nibelheim while also being a little tipping point to her stopping Cloud when he wants to go up to meet Aerith--and at that point it might be a definite change to canon, rather than just an addition. But it's something I can easily see having happened in canon, too, if it just so happened for the opportunity to line up...

...I want to write! (Even if I'm not sure the scene will come out on paper as well as it seems in my head right now. I'm probably overlooking something.) I'll probably go with the first scene for now, and hopefully find another way to work in more of Cait's qualities; in the second version I felt kind of odd with Aerith's lines, in spite of (or maybe because of) her being more coherent.

And...I'm actually really glad you can see Tifa's POV being tricky to get sounding right, because I was starting to get hung up on that I was being unreasonably biased or something. But it's not like we're ever supposed to think that what she did was right--just understandable. And it is a difficult situation to be caught in.

[sanctum_c]

Oh, not to worry, that was an interesting read, and I like to figure out how things have wound up as they have too... They're interesting background ideas though so I am going to bear it in mind regardless. But heh - yeah easiest to just have Hojo killed off somewhere and Shinra give up on the whole Promised Land thing (maybe Rufus could wrest control of the company at some point... though probably still a bit of a mismatch - I can't remember how old he's supposed to be). I do like that moment of Cloud meeting Aeris and her just shooting down the Sephiroth admiration and telling Cloud to be himself... And from that that he works hard and clears things up with Tifa. And I kind of like that idea that the younger Sephiroth is the major reason why the Faremis family is still okay - but yeah I can see Aeris wanting Sephiroth wanting away from her friends - she's grateful, but woah Sephiroth is scary!

...dang, I'm thinking about this idea now... No! Other ones first...

Hmm... yeah, not sure when Aeris would realise her feelings for Tifa are stronger then maybe she previously realised like that - I kind of want to say after she saves her at the altar in the Forgotten City, but I'm wondering if she'd try to dismiss that as part of heightened emotions due to what has just happened. I suppose it could be during or after the Gold Saucer date when she sees Tifa again... Hmm... yeah its an odd one to judge really. Haha - nice song reference for Cloud there... But yeah, I can see him worrying about if Aeris' behaviour towards him is like that due to him acting like Zack (noooooo Cloud. She likes you!) - though I kind of like him simply deciding to trust Aeris; hopefully he'll get the idea at some point that she really does mean what she says...

Heh - a very mixed Reeve fic like that sounds fun; and I don't think I've read too much from Reeve's perspective - whether in canon timeline or otherwise (and to connect to the discussion of fan-games, more of him while working for Shinra could be interesting - or just seeing how he copes day-in, day-out with the less then wonderful people he's working with (...the hopefully humorous sequence where the Turks drag him out drinking))

Ah! Glad things have come together - and yeah that transition between the scenes sounds workable (especially considering how FFVII itself handled the move to Gongaga). And I like the bittersweet curling up next to Aeris, feeling her get up but being assured she'll be back... And then she's gone and everyone's looking for her. Especially good if your ideas can now reinforce why Tifa can't tell Cloud about Nibelheim - and even better if it feels like it could have happened in canon as well.

The desire to write is good! And worry not about it not coming out on paper as it does in your head (that happens to me all the time... suddenly I find events much further in coming out in conversation alarmingly sooner/conversations taking whole new unintended routes). I think you might be right about the second version of the scene as well...

Very yes about Tifa's POV. Getting it to sound right is a real balancing act; as you said - we're never meant to think it was right to lie to Cloud like that, but we are supposed to empathise with her decision to do so and how she coped with the situation as it stood, or failing that just understand why she did in a tremendously difficult situation.

[raaj]

Haha, ideas do like to crowd.

I kind of want to make Aerith's feelings for Tifa a gradually increasing thing...strangely enough part of me wants to put the actual realization at the strangest place of in the fallout of their argument, with Aerith figuring out just why it hurts so much. (...That really doesn't make it feel better, either...)

There's still other potential chapters though...trying to figure out how it might go. ...And I was about to do a "potential" outline here before realizing it was getting waaay too long, lmfao. Basically there's easy opportunities for at least seven sections and so far I'm actually only sure about doing four, (the first shared night, Gongaga, Wutai, and date night through to the altar), which seems really short now that I list them out like that soooo yeah. There will probably be other scenes added in and that might add a way to get Aerith thinking earlier on/set up to have her realize later on (tempting to do one after Cosmo Canyon where Aerith's still sad about being the last Ancient, then confesses to feeling a bit guilty--she's long wanted to eventually have a child and partly so she wouldn't be the only one, even though she knows that isn't a good reason, and that gets them talking about families and tangenting into love).

(and to connect to the discussion of fan-games, more of him while working for Shinra could be interesting - or just seeing how he copes day-in, day-out with the less then wonderful people he's working with (...the hopefully humorous sequence where the Turks drag him out drinking))

...this made me think of a fairly simple flash game--"Every Day The Same Dream". You play an office worker who every day goes to work in his cubicle and has a soulless existence both at work and at home. In the elevator of his apartment building is a lady who tells him that if he takes five steps, he will become a new person. It's very simple and almost automatic to just do the normal routine of getting him to his job... the actual game is finding the "five steps" of ways he can break the routine and do something else, even if it's simply in his dreams. That game becomes morbid (three of the steps are innocent, but one is finding a cemetery, another jumping off the office building--for every step you take the company's progress is shown to decline, and once you've done all five every other person will be absent from the surroundings--even the elevator lady--until you go back to the office roof. There the music stops and you see an employee standing on the ledge ready to jump as you did in a previous dream. All you can do is approach him until he jumps and the game itself resets) but it's kind of funny to think of a game with Reeve where doing the routine is easy and the game is to try to throw a wrench in things without getting him in too much trouble.

As for the rest of what will be the final bit of "Sleeping Arrangements"... I think it's mostly a matter of writing it, now!

[sanctum_c]

So many ideas... so many other distractions. I could do everything if I didn't have that pesky job thing.

Hmm... I do like the idea of Aeris' feelings being a gradually increasing thing; it has a kind of right feel for them to have gotten to a point where Aeris is invested, but hasn't ever stepped back to think of how she feels objectively. She's been too close for too long, and gotten so very used to physical intimacy (with the Sleeping Arrangements of the title) that she doesn't realise she feels so strongly about Tifa. ...I can see the rationale of putting the realisation at that point, and that makes sense that if hurting so much worse then she would have expected leads to her examining things more closely... and yeah its not going to help her feel better, but is going to spur her to repair the breach as fast as possible (though I'd expect Aeris to do that regardless)

Hooray for potential other chapters! The existing four don't seem too bad time-wise. They feel largely spread equidistantly across that stage of the journey/storyline. But... more sounds good to read (so I may be slightly biased). One at Cosmo Canyon like that sounds interesting - I haven't seen many fics which actually pick up on how Aeris' feelings about being the last Cetra/the possibility that she feels she should have a child to perpetuate her line (usually things get side-tracked into pre-destined sacrifice which is frustrating most of the time). And I like the idea she has always contemplated having a child - and definitely that this is not the reason she should be considering it really. And the lead into families and love sounds good (and presumably steering clear of that sort-of crackfic idea where Tifa and Aeris sit Cloud down to ask him to help one or both of them conceive a child (unlike the fempreg one where they have to admit Aeris has gotten Tifa pregnant...)).

I shall have a look for the flash-game you mentioned - though yeah, that sounds pretty morbid... BUt as a basis for Reeve, I can see that. And I like the idea of figuring out how to throw the wrench in without causing too much trouble for him.

Hooray! And good luck with writing the remainder. Always happy to read more of it.

[raaj]

I think I also just want to play around with both the kind of--alternating interpretations of Aerith, her being so knowledgeable about relationships, her being fresh-faced and innocent... she's had one more dating relationship than Cloud and Tifa. That really isn't saying much!! So it's just... easy to see her kind of worldly about relationships in one way, with Midgar exposing her to all sorts of things, and once she knows what she wants she's determined to get it... and yet at the same time being "the last Cetra" has set her far apart from others emotionally, and she pined over Zack for so long that even as she's accepting of bisexuality it never totally clicked for her that she might be bisexual until she's in deep over her best friend. And now her best friend is mad at her and oh god noooooo.

That said I will probably have to watch my characterization of Aerith a bit as I know I tend to trip off to my own extremes, lmfao. Probably inevitable when you've thought about one character long enough.

Well--that's actually a good point, that they're spread out pretty equally. It just seemed sparse to me. I'll probably just have to write out the scenes, then see what's missing/what other threads could be picked up on. ffffffffffff I never like the predestined sacrifice thing at Cosmo Canyon. If she learned she was the last Cetra and that she was going to die there I would expect her to be all "BUT I WANTED A FUTURE :(" not "I'M ALL ALONE :("; to me it just seems obvious she feels alone because all the other Cetra are dead and she's going to keep living even if it's as the last one. And...haha, yes, to get off a potential rant, yes the Cosmo Canyon will steer plenty clear of Aerith musing how to ask Cloud to help her conceive--though it might solidify Tifa's view that Aerith is never going to be looking for a relationship with another girl since Aerith really seems to want a biological child.

Hopefully I will get more of it done soon! Admittedly I kind of squandered today fiddling around with my writing program/reacquainting myself with the bells and whistles rather than writing... er, well actually I have like three different programs for text documents; xPad, textedit and Scrivener. Textedit I don't use too much, mostly for storing documents, xPad is where I tend to tuck in a lot of different little things I'm working on at the moment because it lets you switch between documents easily as they're all "open" and this is where I was originally writing out all of Sleeping Arrangements, except in one document (the number of documents in the notepad is already a silly amount)--then everything was breaking up into way too many scenes to scroll through the thing easily so I moved it all to Scrivener, which actually is designed for novel-writing projects and such (and is much too fun to play with). So. Yes. Need to stop fiddling with the bells and whistles and just write more (kind of want to go through everything and take notes/edit first though...but that's probably more of my fiddling talking, ahaha.)

[sanctum_c]

I like that idea of alternating the interpretations of Aeris; she does give that impression of being knowledgable about relationships while still being quite innocent about all kinds of things - and yep, only one more dating relationship then Cloud or Tifa. (I have this idea that Aeris might be really intrigued about relationships and what one would get up to, but has never found anyone she like she did about Zack before meeting Cloud and Tifa. So now she's entertaining new ideas). So, yeah, I can see if being really easy for her to seem wordly about relationships with living near Wall Market and Midgar in general. And I like that aspect that being the last Cetra does set her apart, and the accepting bisexuality without really considering what's happened until she's in deep and her would be girlfriend is furious (poor Aeris, but I know it will turn out for the best!)

I can see the chapters feeling a little sparse, but then at some areas there aren't as other decent way-points. Random thought that just occured as I was thinking you could do a Nibelheim set chapter... and then I realised you have that short fic about Aeris kissing Cloud while he's asleep - which as much as I remember it feels like it could fit in for a more overt indicator of Aeris liking Cloud...

Ah, not to worry, I don't like the pre-determined sacrifice ever; depressing, OOC for Aeris and just doesn't seem right in terms of saving the world. And yeah if she did learn (as several fics imply) that she was going to die, I do think she'd protest that/live more eagerly - not just say she's alone. Heh - probably best to steer clear of the Cloud helping her conceive; but that is a potentially good way to make the relationship ambiguous for a while with Tifa assuming Aeris will start looking for a way to continue the line - she may have thought/been told she was the last Cetra, but it seems like before that she was never certain. So... yeah I can see Tifa reckoning even if Aeris was interesting in a relationship with another girl, its likely not a priorty for her...

Ah - I've done that with my word processing thigns before now and just wound up fiddling. Scrivener sounds (and looks) like a very interesting program - not entirely reliable on my OS at the moment (I'm on Linux), but I don't think I have anything geared towards writing in that way... I usually use something called gedit (after abandoning it as something went wrong with the theme and it looked terrible. But I couldn't find another text editor with tabs and word counts and loads of other little things I keep using. And then I got it to look nice again so I returned). xPad sounds really handy with that part about all the documents being 'open'.

[raaj]

(I have this idea that Aeris might be really intrigued about relationships and what one would get up to, but has never found anyone she like she did about Zack before meeting Cloud and Tifa. So now she's entertaining new ideas).

Ahaha, it's just about this for me! I see Aerith as having a bit of guardedness, even as she's friendly to others, so it takes a certain kind of connection to really make her think "I want to be with this person. She thought about it and she might have looked at the end of her letters to Zack, but she didn't find anyone who left an impression like Zack had.

...It's kind of funny, but I never worried about showing that Aerith loves Cloud. I suppose it's because I was focused on Tifa's pov and she has that thought... Not sure about using the sleeping kiss at that timepoint, but I'll have to think about the two of them some more (and do have to admit I was wondering earlier if Cloud was present enough in this--as the titled sleeping arrangements are mostly Tifa and Aerith together, or they end up dominating when Cloud is present too. although it is actually planned that the scene with Cloud and Tifa are going to be them resting...not with, but by each other. so maybe something with Cloud and Aerith would be good).

I only used Linux a bit at college. Never really got the hang of it...gedit looks nice though--simple and flexible.

[sanctum_c]

I do really like that view of Aeris - that desire for a real connection to realise she really wants to be with someone (I think you articulated that much more effectively). I can really see when she reluctantly gave up hope on Zack returning that she did look and found no one, and I just like the implication that she is so keen to be around Cloud and Tifa as she does feel that connection.

Ah, good point; since so much is from Tifa's POV and she's worrying about the other two and what they feel. Hmm... debatable point about Cloud's presence; and yeah it is focusing more on the Aeris and Tifa (though I have really enjoyed all the scenes so far) - intrigued on the Cloud and Tifa resting scene though. And it would make sense to balance that with a scene of Aeris and Cloud...

Looking forward to reading it however it turns out though!

Linux is a bit of an odd thing to use regularly (at first) - and takes some getting used to. Amusingly I have Windows as well to be able to play games when they come out; it's usable possible to get them working after a while, but sometimes I'm just get too eager (especially with things like Portal 2 and BioShock Infinite where there was increasing risk of spoilers everywhere).

Oddly managed to find a version of Scrivener that runs after that as well; and I really can see the appeal - spent far too long fiddling to put the various parts of 'The Fire Dancer' into it with the notes... Looks to be a really neat way to keep multiple drafts of chapters and the life close to hand...